Can Science Study The Supernatural?

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The place to debate matters of faith and religion in a more rigorous manner. Differing perspectives from both Christians and non-Christians are actively welcomed, but contributors should come prepared to justify their opinions and beliefs, while showing due respect to the views of others.

Re: Can Science Study The Supernatural?

Postby Pondero » March 27th, 2015, 10:07 pm

Sprocket wrote:
SwordOfTheSpirit wrote:Once again, things come down to truth. The burden of proof should like with the one making the claim.

Quite - and it's believers, including me, who are making the claim - that God is real. Not believing in something is failing to make a claim. The onus is on us believers to say why we think belief is reasonable, otherwise atheism wins by default.
I remember having this very argument almost 50 years ago, when I was in the 6th form, with a friend who was a Roman Catholic. I at the time was going through an atheist phase, like a lot of adolescents.


But an atheist is making the claim that there is no God. He says there is no evidence for it.But an atheist like a Christian must have a reason. A Christian should have evidence for the existence of God, that is his reason.
If you can't give reasons then you should be an agnostic.
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Re: Can Science Study The Supernatural?

Postby Sprocket » March 28th, 2015, 8:18 am

I think most atheists are agnostics, strictly speaking, but are atheists in practice. That was true, by his own account, of Bertrand Russell.
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Re: Can Science Study The Supernatural?

Postby SwordOfTheSpirit » March 28th, 2015, 2:28 pm

SwordOfTheSpirit wrote:Once again, things come down to truth. The burden of proof should like with the one making the claim.
Sprocket wrote:Quite - and it's believers, including me, who are making the claim - that God is real. Not believing in something is failing to make a claim. The onus is on us believers to say why we think belief is reasonable, otherwise atheism wins by default.

No disagreement from me here, but would you agree (or disagree) with my assertion that nowadays, in some areas atheism has moved away from an absence of belief in God, to making pronouncements about the validity of belief in God?

Val wrote:Are you trying to be funny

No, I was not. I would agree with the comparison Sprocket made if applied e.g. 30 years ago. However, in my opinion there has been a shift in some areas and by some from atheism being an absence of belief in God to atheism claiming the non-existence of God.

As Sprocket said above, the burden of proof is with the one making the claim, and if I were out with an evangelism team, I would see that as part of my responsibility. However, if someone starts to claim that I am wrong to believe in God because He doesn't exist, why shouldn't the burden of proof lie with them?
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Re: Can Science Study The Supernatural?

Postby Sprocket » March 28th, 2015, 3:01 pm

Because he (or she) is simply expressing their non-belief in God, and naturally they think you're wrong to believe in God. Occam's razor: if something can be explained perfectly well without recourse to a hypothesis, then that hypothesis should not be resorted to. Atheists think that the universe can be explained without recourse to God. They are wrong, but the onus is on us to say why they are.
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Re: Can Science Study The Supernatural?

Postby Val » March 28th, 2015, 5:50 pm

SwordOfTheSpirit wrote:
Val wrote:Are you trying to be funny

No, I was not. I would agree with the comparison Sprocket made if applied e.g. 30 years ago. However, in my opinion there has been a shift in some areas and by some from atheism being an absence of belief in God to atheism claiming the non-existence of God.


Atheists like Believers in God can claim whatever they want, but I think you'll find that many of those statements are made to refute particular religious texts regarding the creation of life the universe and everything.
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“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
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