Ireland Referendum on same sex marriage

The place to debate matters of faith and religion in a more rigorous manner.
Forum rules
The place to debate matters of faith and religion in a more rigorous manner. Differing perspectives from both Christians and non-Christians are actively welcomed, but contributors should come prepared to justify their opinions and beliefs, while showing due respect to the views of others.

Re: Ireland Referendum on same sex marriage

Postby Lyn » May 23rd, 2015, 12:06 pm

He will be wrong Sprocks. I ask again, what difference does it make to anyone who isn't gay? We know they can't give birth but they know that, many heterosexual couples cannot reproduce and that's life.
Lyn
 
Posts: 46845
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:25 am

Re: Ireland Referendum on same sex marriage

Postby Sprocket » May 23rd, 2015, 12:33 pm

Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason.
Sir John Harington (1561-1620)
User avatar
Sprocket
 
Posts: 15874
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:21 am
Location: Hemel Hempstead, Herts.

Re: Ireland Referendum on same sex marriage

Postby GregB » May 23rd, 2015, 1:08 pm

It looks as if the vote will go to endorse pro-homosexual (repudiating the euphemism 'gay', as if these sad people are ever really gay in the traditional sense of the word, purloined by that community, wishing to inflate their tiny percentage into grossly inflated figures, over-represented in society, from its erstwhile meaning), pseudo-marital unions. And please don't talk about 'loving relationships', as if that cop out carries any real weight when there are different kinds of loving relationships, some purely self-centredly arbitrary and others sanctioned by God (see 'The Four Loves' by C.S.Lewis where fraternal same sex friendship is perfectly legitimate in the eyes of God, but a self-serving, sinful - Satan laughs -parody of male/female union as ordained by God from the beginning is not) and others which are not - and where is the real foundation of those strident voices who think their basically veiled ego-driven, self-righteous idealism is somehow acceptable, conditioned as it is in the false light of our treacherous zeitgeist. ("Did God really say that...?")

Edit: And who is to define 'decency', Steve? Are we some kind of magisterial authority who determine what God's will is for human relationships based on our own limited psyche and partial world view? We don't need to be tunnel-visioned fundamentalists to accept that Scripture makes it clear that marriage, including sexual relations, was ordained by God as between man and woman only. Or shall we just rewrite "that which was from the beginning" in our own flawed contemporary image (which will crash like Ozymandias in the desert of the world...)?
"Caminante, no hay camino, se hace camino al andar." ("Traveller, there is no path, you make the path as you walk.")
- Antonio Machado (Spanish poet, 1875-1939.)
User avatar
GregB
 
Posts: 15552
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:23 am
Location: Barcelona, Spain

Re: Ireland Referendum on same sex marriage

Postby SwordOfTheSpirit » May 23rd, 2015, 2:44 pm


Why is it Tough shit? God's definition of marriage is not affected by this vote, see GregB's post above. I'm looking forward to your response to it, so make the most of any lack of further comment from me for the time being! ;)
SwordOfTheSpirit
 
Posts: 737
Joined: November 21st, 2007, 1:42 pm

Re: Ireland Referendum on same sex marriage

Postby Sprocket » May 23rd, 2015, 3:08 pm

Churches will not have to conduct gay marriages, so their definition of marriage is indeed unchanged. I would myself oppose any move to oblige churches to marry gay couples. Civil marriages of any kind, gay or hetero, are not recognised by many churches, so nothing really changes. If you and Greg want to regard gay relationships as anathema, you are still welcomne to do so, but you can't impose your beliefs on others who don't share them. I disapprove of cigarette smoking, but I don't want to make it illegal.
Greg talks about his disgust at the idea of anal sex. It is not something that appeals to me either, though it is not confined to gays, but disgust at someone's habits is not much of a guide to morality, provided they do not offend others. Most people would be repelled by the idea of eating raw eggs, but it's not immoral, provided you do it in private. (vegetarians would disagree, of course, but even they would be unable to explain why it's worse than easting cooked eggs).
Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason.
Sir John Harington (1561-1620)
User avatar
Sprocket
 
Posts: 15874
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:21 am
Location: Hemel Hempstead, Herts.

Re: Ireland Referendum on same sex marriage

Postby GregB » May 23rd, 2015, 3:32 pm

Not so, Steve. Firstly, we're not imposing our arguments on others - you're doing that from a wholly secular, modern liberal perspective (assuming it is right just because "it feels right" according to our supposedly 'enlightened' times) which turns a blind eye to (or, better, relativises) Biblical mandates on human relationships and sexuality. And to compare this crucial moral issue to that of cigarette smoking is, I have to say, way off beam.

As for my disgust at anal sex (and I modified my post earlier as it might have seemed a bit strong for some sensibilities), my repulsion, fastidiousness aside, is based on the obvious fact that anuses are not designed for sexual intercourse and the resulting stinking effluvium should be evidence of that. If we believe as Christians that human bodies, male and female, were perfectly designed for sexual interaction, then it follows that any attempt to violate that norm by unnatural means is, indeed, anathema, for all the attempts at justification by those who seek accommodation with the spirit of this increasingly degenerate age, believing they are doing 'the decent thing'.

Oh, and what you do in private is not unseen by God. If what is done behind closed doors contravenes his laws, then it has no justification at all, regardless of the nefarious 'do your own thing provided it doesn't affect others' lame, self-centred, amoral rule of thumb of our benighted times.
"Caminante, no hay camino, se hace camino al andar." ("Traveller, there is no path, you make the path as you walk.")
- Antonio Machado (Spanish poet, 1875-1939.)
User avatar
GregB
 
Posts: 15552
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:23 am
Location: Barcelona, Spain

Re: Ireland Referendum on same sex marriage

Postby Val » May 23rd, 2015, 4:52 pm

For those of you who believe that God created humans as part of his perfect creation then surely he made mistakes with creating Gay or Homosexual people, so why should these “faulty” humans suffer the loss of a perfect partner just because their creator erred.
Ireland has today sent a clear message to all bigots and deniers of equal right for all the human family.

This was not forced on them, it was a democratic decision.
I am who I am, your approval isn't needed
User avatar
Val
 
Posts: 3423
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:22 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Ireland Referendum on same sex marriage

Postby GregB » May 23rd, 2015, 5:32 pm

"Gay or homosexual people", Val? Have I missed some subtle difference here? :scratch: I mean, I thought they were the same thing, but what do I know next to an expert in such matters as yourself? (Note to myself: book an hour of expiatory flagellation at the first opportunity; my Calvin Klein hairshirt may not be enough.)

Anyway, let's address the rest of your post. The Christian explanation for all departures from the norms God created is resumed in that three-letter word, 'sin'. (Pause while the all-knowing Val smirks at such nonsense and reaches for his single-malt to drown out the bad taste of such cant.) As for "the loss of a perfect partner", are you really so naive as to believe there is such a thing as 'a perfect partner', homosexual or heterosexual, especially in our divorce-plagued society? Or are you just trotting out your stock, time-honoured lame arguments to discredit the religion you loathe with such consistent, one-note vehemence? You know, Val, bigotry can have more faces and nuances than you might imagine.

"Deniers of equal right (sic) for all the human family"? My word, I do love your purple prose, Val! ;)

Ireland has today sent a clear message to all lemmings as they near the cliff's edge: We've joined you! :yahoo:
"Caminante, no hay camino, se hace camino al andar." ("Traveller, there is no path, you make the path as you walk.")
- Antonio Machado (Spanish poet, 1875-1939.)
User avatar
GregB
 
Posts: 15552
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:23 am
Location: Barcelona, Spain

Re: Ireland Referendum on same sex marriage

Postby Val » May 23rd, 2015, 9:36 pm

Then why are some people more affected by that sin than others, and why should they suffer while the rest of their heterosexual friends get off without a problem.
I am who I am, your approval isn't needed
User avatar
Val
 
Posts: 3423
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:22 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Ireland Referendum on same sex marriage

Postby Sprocket » May 24th, 2015, 6:28 am

Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason.
Sir John Harington (1561-1620)
User avatar
Sprocket
 
Posts: 15874
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:21 am
Location: Hemel Hempstead, Herts.

PreviousNext

Return to In depth

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest