Unnecessary cruelty to animals

The place to debate matters of faith and religion in a more rigorous manner.
Forum rules
The place to debate matters of faith and religion in a more rigorous manner. Differing perspectives from both Christians and non-Christians are actively welcomed, but contributors should come prepared to justify their opinions and beliefs, while showing due respect to the views of others.

Re: Unnecessary cruelty to animals

Postby Pondero » July 22nd, 2015, 1:51 am

It is so easy to sign a petition without thinking about what you are signing, and politicians know this.And I maintain that with a million signatures it will be ignored. I have have seen petitions before that result in nothing. I have witnessed parades for PRO life that were the biggest parades ever in front of the Parliament buildings,* where young and old gather to bear witness to the truth, which grow larger every year and they are not reported on by the media, except EWTN and before it went under..Sun News.Nothing happens..but, we growing numbers, until critical mass is reached!

Politicians prefer a letter from an individual, than an Email. It requires little effort to sign a petition and politicians know this.
You get an A for enthusiasm and a D for effort,because signing is so easy to do!

* In Canada.
According to one study, the average adult has a shorter attention span (eight seconds) than a goldfish (nine seconds).
This is not surprising in today's wired , or wified world.
User avatar
Pondero
 
Posts: 12612
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:03 am
Location: Etobicoke,Ontario, Canada

Re: Unnecessary cruelty to animals

Postby Sprocket » July 22nd, 2015, 6:06 am

Individual letters are taken more motice of than petition signatures, but petitions are noted as well. I read somewhere that, as a rough rule of thumb, politicians regard one letter as worth 10 petition signatures. I've signed petitions that resulted in victory, although the politicians will never admit that they changed their mind because of a petition. Anyway, signing one, whether online or on old-fashioned paper, is so quick and easy, why not do so if you agree with it?
Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason.
Sir John Harington (1561-1620)
User avatar
Sprocket
 
Posts: 16043
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:21 am
Location: Hemel Hempstead, Herts.

Re: Unnecessary cruelty to animals

Postby GregB » July 22nd, 2015, 7:01 am

Exactly. And I think most people who sign a petition do so agreeing with the proposition as the majority of individuals would surely rather not put their name to something without checking it first. Of course, written or printed petitions can be subject to abuse in that names and signatures can be faked, although one assumes petitioners for good causes would be above such underhand practices. In any event, this is avoided here in Spain as you have to put your identity card number after your signature to establish the credibility of your existence. This, of course, does not happen in the UK, which has no ID system. You might say that putting an e-mail address in an online petition also confirms identity in a similar way.

One aspect of all this which hasn't been mentioned is that, although individual letters may carry more weight than petitions, a petition signed by thousands would seem to be a better gauge of public support for the cause, precisely because many will be deterred from writing a letter as more time and effort is involved while appending a name, a signature and a number or address is the work of a moment.

As for Pondero's assertion that politicians ignore petitions, if that were true one can't help but wonder why people still bother to draw them up and seek signatory support. (See Steve's last post, too.)
"The wiles of dissembling fate afford us the illusion of freedom, yet in the end always lead us into the same trap."
- Jean Cocteau
User avatar
GregB
 
Posts: 15807
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:23 am
Location: Barcelona, Spain

Re: Unnecessary cruelty to animals

Postby Pondero » July 22nd, 2015, 9:54 am

As for Pondero's assertion that politicians ignore petitions, if that were true one can't help but wonder why people still bother to draw them up and seek signatory support. (See Steve's last post, too.)


I do indeed wonder Greg. Either they don't know any better or they are mesmerized by the wonders of modern technology.
Perhaps, if some of our own Pan American Games (currently in Toronto) nubile,female swimmers were to catch the BA.'red eye' flight to Heathrow, transport themselves to Cameron's residence,and chain themselves to the railings of 10 Downing Street,(like suffragettes ) semi-naked carrying a banner saying "Save Our Puppy Dogs" . It might help.Cameron would certainly get an eyeful.
According to one study, the average adult has a shorter attention span (eight seconds) than a goldfish (nine seconds).
This is not surprising in today's wired , or wified world.
User avatar
Pondero
 
Posts: 12612
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:03 am
Location: Etobicoke,Ontario, Canada

Re: Unnecessary cruelty to animals

Postby Sprocket » July 22nd, 2015, 10:38 am

Greg has pointed out that the organisers of petitions wouldn't continue to orrganise them if they were ineffective, and campaigning organisations nowadays are sophisticated enough to know what works and what doesn't; I've pointed out that some petitions have succeeded that I know of, and that politicians themselves say that they do take some notice of them (and common sense tells us that if politicians receive a petition with a huge number of signatures on it, they will have to take account of the public feeling it represents), and Pondero hasn't come up with any counter-arguments or evidence for his assertion of their complete ineffectiveness, but will he change his mind? Is the pope Catholic?
Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason.
Sir John Harington (1561-1620)
User avatar
Sprocket
 
Posts: 16043
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:21 am
Location: Hemel Hempstead, Herts.

Re: Unnecessary cruelty to animals

Postby Pondero » July 22nd, 2015, 11:30 am

Sprocket wrote:Greg has pointed out that the organisers of petitions wouldn't continue to orrganise them if they were ineffective, and campaigning organisations nowadays are sophisticated enough to know what works and what doesn't; I've pointed out that some petitions have succeeded that I know of, and that politicians themselves say that they do take some notice of them (and common sense tells us that if politicians receive a petition with a huge number of signatures on it, they will have to take account of the public feeling it represents), and Pondero hasn't come up with any counter-arguments or evidence for his assertion of their complete ineffectiveness, but will he change his mind? Is the pope Catholic?


You haven't come up with any proof either , you just make assertions. I did at least point out the apparent ineffectiveness of demonstrations of 25,000 or more Pro Lifers outside Parliament buildings in Ottawa. Of course it is illusory, because unseen to the press with blinkers on, the numbers are increasing every year. The politicians do not take action.
Knowing the kind of people who inhabit Twitter based on their comments,I doubt the sophistication of vain glorious petition starters.
According to one study, the average adult has a shorter attention span (eight seconds) than a goldfish (nine seconds).
This is not surprising in today's wired , or wified world.
User avatar
Pondero
 
Posts: 12612
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:03 am
Location: Etobicoke,Ontario, Canada

Re: Unnecessary cruelty to animals

Postby Lyn » July 22nd, 2015, 1:58 pm

Basically (I use that over-used word advisedly), some of us think petitions are effective and others don't. would prefer to write a letter. Fair enough, there is no pressure to sign online petitions or any other petitions come to that.

I recently signed a petition addressed to, I presume, Greenwich Council, organised by people who live on the other side of the road, about a proposal to site a 'phone mast on the corner of a side road, right next to houses on our road. Apparently it will reduce the value of houses. I don't care much about it but could see it was important to the people who lived nearer and there is talk, whether myth or not, about mobile 'phone masts causing some health problems - not proven so far. So I signed.
Lyn
 
Posts: 48687
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:25 am

Re: Unnecessary cruelty to animals

Postby Pondero » July 22nd, 2015, 3:43 pm

What you said earlier Victoria about lack of privacy is quite true.If one Googled my name on the Internet they would get our* full address in Florida. It doesn't work for Canadian addresses. You also get the letters I have written to the Catholic Register too.
This is too much.
So many sites are being hacked these days, I am extra careful with credit cards. I use one for buying books and nothing else, so I know when I get the bill what it is for. (Greg does the same, he says.)
I write letters to MPPs and MP and use the mail, not email, for such correspondence, it has more effect on the politicians, not much, but at least they read it or scan it before putting it in the garbage can.




*the wife and I.
According to one study, the average adult has a shorter attention span (eight seconds) than a goldfish (nine seconds).
This is not surprising in today's wired , or wified world.
User avatar
Pondero
 
Posts: 12612
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:03 am
Location: Etobicoke,Ontario, Canada

Previous

Return to In depth

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest