The existence (or not) of God.

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The place to debate matters of faith and religion in a more rigorous manner. Differing perspectives from both Christians and non-Christians are actively welcomed, but contributors should come prepared to justify their opinions and beliefs, while showing due respect to the views of others.

Re: The existence (or not) of God.

Postby gone » September 27th, 2016, 2:34 pm

Sprocket wrote:
Pondero wrote:
Sprocket wrote:There is no hell, in the traditional sense of everlasting, conscious torment. The Bible doesn't teach it. It's a later invention of the church, after it got too powerful for its own good, to keep people in line by fear.


Jesus often speaks of "Gehenna" of the "unquenchable fire" reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both body and soul can be lost. Mt 5:22,29;10:28;13:42,50,Mk 9:43-48, (CCC1034)
Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather....all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire. Mt 13:41:42. And that he will pronounce the condemnation "Depart from me, you cursed,into the eternal fire!" Mt 25:41.

And what does a fire do? It destroys. If eternal, conscious misery was the lot of the unsaved, the imagery would be of dungeons and torture implements.


Agreed, no one can burn for ever and ever.
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Re: The existence (or not) of God.

Postby Pondero » September 27th, 2016, 3:37 pm

I don't see why not , or do you presume to know how God is going to do it instead of taking God at his word.
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Re: The existence (or not) of God.

Postby Sprocket » September 27th, 2016, 4:04 pm

I am taking God at his word (and I realise that you were addressing SJ). The Bible says that the unsaved will be cast into a lake of fire - where they will be quickly destroyed, presumably. Therefore, their fate is extinction, not eternal torment.
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Re: The existence (or not) of God.

Postby Pondero » September 27th, 2016, 4:15 pm

Sprocket wrote:I am taking God at his word (and I realise that you were addressing SJ). The Bible says that the unsaved will be cast into a lake of fire - where they will be quickly destroyed, presumably. Therefore, their fate is extinction, not eternal torment.

Where, exactly in the Bible does it say that?
If your mind is your brain and your brain is just material , would you rely on it?
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Re: The existence (or not) of God.

Postby Sprocket » September 27th, 2016, 4:26 pm

Pondero wrote:
Sprocket wrote:I am taking God at his word (and I realise that you were addressing SJ). The Bible says that the unsaved will be cast into a lake of fire - where they will be quickly destroyed, presumably. Therefore, their fate is extinction, not eternal torment.

Where, exactly in the Bible does it say that?

Read your own previous post, for heaven's sake!
Jesus often speaks of "Gehenna" of the "unquenchable fire" reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both body and soul can be lost. Mt 5:22,29;10:28;13:42,50,Mk 9:43-48, (CCC1034)
Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather....all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire. Mt 13:41:42. And that he will pronounce the condemnation "Depart from me, you cursed,into the eternal fire!" Mt 25:41.
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Re: The existence (or not) of God.

Postby Pondero » September 27th, 2016, 4:40 pm

Sprocket wrote:
Pondero wrote:
Sprocket wrote:I am taking God at his word (and I realise that you were addressing SJ). The Bible says that the unsaved will be cast into a lake of fire - where they will be quickly destroyed, presumably. Therefore, their fate is extinction, not eternal torment.

Where, exactly in the Bible does it say that?

Read your own previous post, for heaven's sake!
Jesus often speaks of "Gehenna" of the "unquenchable fire" reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both body and soul can be lost. Mt 5:22,29;10:28;13:42,50,Mk 9:43-48, (CCC1034)
Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather....all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire. Mt 13:41:42. And that he will pronounce the condemnation "Depart from me, you cursed,into the eternal fire!" Mt 25:41.

It does not say , as you do "where they will be quickly destroyed, presumably,Therefore, there fate is extinction, not eternal torment." You presume as does SJ, that God is not capable of keeping soul and body alive for eternity in eternal fire.Well, believe what you like , I will take the word of God over yours and that of SJ.
If your mind is your brain and your brain is just material , would you rely on it?
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Re: The existence (or not) of God.

Postby gone » September 27th, 2016, 4:43 pm

Pondero wrote:I don't see why not , or do you presume to know how God is going to do it instead of taking God at his word.


Only a crazy psycho would want to torture people forever and ever, however bad they are. The idea that mere unbelief is a crime is ludicrous, imo.
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Re: The existence (or not) of God.

Postby Pondero » September 27th, 2016, 4:53 pm

Sarniajoy wrote:
Pondero wrote:I don't see why not , or do you presume to know how God is going to do it instead of taking God at his word.


Only a crazy psycho would want to torture people forever and ever, however bad they are. The idea that mere unbelief is a crime is ludicrous, imo.

So, God according to you must be a crazy psycho.!! Your posts become whackier and weirder as time goes on.
If your mind is your brain and your brain is just material , would you rely on it?
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Re: The existence (or not) of God.

Postby gone » September 27th, 2016, 4:57 pm

Pondero wrote:
Sarniajoy wrote:
Pondero wrote:I don't see why not , or do you presume to know how God is going to do it instead of taking God at his word.


Only a crazy psycho would want to torture people forever and ever, however bad they are. The idea that mere unbelief is a crime is ludicrous, imo.

So, God according to you must be a crazy psycho.!! Your posts become whackier and weirder as time goes on.


The god featured in the Bible is certainly that, imo! If you think it is ok for god to allow people to burn for ever and ever then your thinking must be skewed to say the least! :o
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Re: The existence (or not) of God.

Postby Pondero » September 27th, 2016, 5:08 pm

You must consider what such people have done, people such as the likes of Hitler, Joe Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Tse Tung, the previous great leader of North Korea and others of similar ilk. I say "such as the likes of" because, it is possible, that some of the aforementioned have repented before they died.( although it is extremely unlkely based on their brutality).
If your mind is your brain and your brain is just material , would you rely on it?
John Lennox
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