Moral Progress

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The place to debate matters of faith and religion in a more rigorous manner. Differing perspectives from both Christians and non-Christians are actively welcomed, but contributors should come prepared to justify their opinions and beliefs, while showing due respect to the views of others.

Moral Progress

Postby Pondero » October 21st, 2017, 11:25 pm

https://www.thecatholicthing.org/2017/1 ... -progress/

The author debunks the notion that moral progress by humans evolves.
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Re: Moral Progress

Postby Val » October 22nd, 2017, 1:43 pm

Pondero wrote:https://www.thecatholicthing.org/2017/10/21/moral-progress/

The author debunks the notion that moral progress by humans evolves.



Sorry to disappoint you Leslie but what he says is mostly nonsense, it is the 21st century and as such the humans of today are morally superior to our forbears from the dim and distant, just go back a few generations and we would barely recognise our ancestors, they lived in a time of morally acceptable slavery blessed by their religious mentors, a time where it was morally acceptable to preach religious intolerance leading to the persecution and often death of millions of their human brothers, infanticide and child sacrifice was widespread in many societies.
Anyone of low intelligence or suffering from any abnormality physical or mental was considered an idiot or lunatic and locked away that plus far too many other instances of society accepted cruelty to mention here.

We live in enlightened times because of cultural evolution brought about by (as someone once said) accidents of history where differing cultures met and took what they saw was of benefit to their tribes that which made them stronger sometimes at great cost to the individual, this also evolved in many animal species, but outside of altruism and probably because of it; evolved a culture of greed, delusion and self-interest which has no benefit to the whole and is eventually killed off, human morality is still evolving as we clean up society of wrongdoers, bullies and those self-interested ones, we no longer tolerate infanticide, religious intolerance etc. Now in the 21st century where possible we take care of the sick and elderly we educate and provide protection to society at great cost to the individual.

We are morally superior to that which went before us
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Re: Moral Progress

Postby Lyn » October 22nd, 2017, 2:43 pm

In fairness to Pondero he hasn't said he agrees with the article, just put it up for discussion.
I agree with all you said, Val. The article is airy fairy, the author (surprisingly young!), rather other worldly.
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Re: Moral Progress

Postby Val » October 22nd, 2017, 3:11 pm

Lyn wrote:In fairness to Pondero he hasn't said he agrees with the article, just put it up for discussion.
I agree with all you said, Val. The article is airy fairy, the author (surprisingly young!), rather other worldly.



Mind you he did say the author debunked the theory that morals evolved
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Re: Moral Progress

Postby Pondero » October 22nd, 2017, 3:31 pm

Val wrote:
Pondero wrote:https://www.thecatholicthing.org/2017/10/21/moral-progress/

The author debunks the notion that moral progress by humans evolves.



Sorry to disappoint you Leslie but what he says is mostly nonsense, it is the 21st century and as such the humans of today are morally superior to our forbears from the dim and distant, just go back a few generations and we would barely recognise our ancestors, they lived in a time of morally acceptable slavery blessed by their religious mentors, a time where it was morally acceptable to preach religious intolerance leading to the persecution and often death of millions of their human brothers, infanticide and child sacrifice was widespread in many societies.
Anyone of low intelligence or suffering from any abnormality physical or mental was considered an idiot or lunatic and locked away that plus far too many other instances of society accepted cruelty to mention here.

We live in enlightened times because of cultural evolution brought about by (as someone once said) accidents of history where differing cultures met and took what they saw was of benefit to their tribes that which made them stronger sometimes at great cost to the individual, this also evolved in many animal species, but outside of altruism and probably because of it; evolved a culture of greed, delusion and self-interest which has no benefit to the whole and is eventually killed off, human morality is still evolving as we clean up society of wrongdoers, bullies and those self-interested ones, we no longer tolerate infanticide, religious intolerance etc. Now in the 21st century where possible we take care of the sick and elderly we educate and provide protection to society at great cost to the individual.

We are morally superior to that which went before us


If I recall correctly there is no evidence of moral growth in the 20th century, and I am surprised with your thinking Val (Ireland maybe the exception) .Let me remind you of the following: the Bolshevik revolution of October 1917, Stalin's purge of millions of Ukrainian peasants, by starving them to death. Stalin's murder of millions after WW2 in the Gulag Archipelago.WW1 (1914 -17) and WW2 where Hitler sent millions (mainly Jews) to the Concentration camps) .We had the Korean War, the Communist take over of China in 1949. PolPot a Communist dictator of Cambodia murdered millions, The Vietnam War itself.
Millions of children aborted in the so called civilized West (many more than would have been killed by back street abortions)
Our substitute for Christian morals is being politically correct by not offending anyone.A new World Order led by billionaire George Soros, and associates.Purely secular, a world without God .One that won't work based on past experience because it won't admit fallen human nature, original sin as Catholics call it.
Last edited by Pondero on October 22nd, 2017, 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moral Progress

Postby Pondero » October 22nd, 2017, 3:37 pm

Val wrote:
Lyn wrote:In fairness to Pondero he hasn't said he agrees with the article, just put it up for discussion.
I agree with all you said, Val. The article is airy fairy, the author (surprisingly young!), rather other worldly.



Mind you he did say the author debunked the theory that morals evolved


The morals of human beings do not Evo!ve.There is no evidence for it.
The author is a Christian.
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Re: Moral Progress

Postby Pondero » October 22nd, 2017, 4:52 pm

Each human being has to be taught by his or her generation all over again. If you don't do that and forget the Christian past then you revert to savagery.A little boy born into a family today compared with a little boy born into a family 2,000 years ago, has not evolved physically during the intervening period, and not spiritually either. That should be obvious.
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Re: Moral Progress

Postby Pondero » October 22nd, 2017, 5:42 pm

Here is another article by the same author for your consideration.
Most of what he says is 'old hat' to me who knew this ages ago.plus what isn't mentioned in this article, but is discussed in the work of Gerald Manley Hopkins whose poems (some only) I read at the U of T. I am sure the lecturer did not intend to give me a Catholic education - but, unknowingly he did. ( See the article on Art by this author)

https://www.thecatholicthing.org/2017/0 ... -morality/
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Re: Moral Progress

Postby Val » October 23rd, 2017, 2:21 pm

Pondero wrote:Each human being has to be taught by his or her generation all over again. If you don't do that and forget the Christian past then you revert to savagery.A little boy born into a family today compared with a little boy born into a family 2,000 years ago, has not evolved physically during the intervening period, and not spiritually either. That should be obvious.


Physical evolution takes a while, the process is slow but noticeable in about 100 generations roughly 2,000 years but to see evolution in action, say a major trait well that takes about 1000 generations somewhere around 25,000 years.
However psychological and cultural evolution is much faster, so that little boy of 2000 years ago is very different from his counterpart of today, spiritually and culturally.

Just a note, if you could look back into your family history to some 333 generations roughly 8000 years that ancestor was not white and could not digest foods that you take for granted today.
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Re: Moral Progress

Postby Pondero » October 23rd, 2017, 3:38 pm

Where are you getting your information from Val?

Your views which you are trying to prove Val , are that we are morally superior to our ancestors.

I have already disagreed with you there , by recalling the history of the 20th century showing there is no evidence for it, as that history is the cruellist on record.Far more cruel than anything that occurred in the Middle Ages.
Last edited by Pondero on October 23rd, 2017, 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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