The God Particle

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Re: The God Particle

Postby Sweet Peace » December 16th, 2011, 8:41 pm

:rotfl:
Where sin abounded, grace did much more abound.
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Re: The God Particle

Postby Pondero » December 17th, 2011, 12:08 pm

Yesterday, I read an article, in the National Post, entitled Deep Science by Brian Greene, a professor of physics and mathematics at Columbia, who called the missing boson by its proper name, Higgs particle , not the God Particle. The latter was a particularly obnoxious invention of Leon Lederman ( another physicist).
Not all physicists are agnostics or atheists, thank God.
Brian Greene is the author of a book called The Hidden Reality:Parallel Universes and the Deep Laws of the Cosmos
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Re: The God Particle

Postby Lyn » December 17th, 2011, 12:41 pm

Certainly not all physicists are atheists Pondy, indeed I have known a couple who were devout Christians (& there must be many others whom I do not know, who fit that bill), but some are, just as some hairdressers, accountants and motor mechanics are atheist or agnostic. As long as they are not offensive they don't bother me. At least they are struggling to make sense of it all, some of them seem to think of nothing else. I daresay they would say the same about us.
I am not sure that "God" particle or "God" gene is meant to be offensive. We can carry on in our own sweet way regardless.
It might interest you to know (or not) that my husband is extremely concerned about me and wants me to go and see a priest to talk things through!
Thank you for your prayers Ponds and I wish you and yours a blessed Christmas. Just thought I would say that now in case I forget during the next week, though I will be here. Not going anywhere until after Christmas.
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Re: The God Particle

Postby GregB » December 18th, 2011, 9:39 am

Palaeologus wrote:Higgs Boson wanders into a church and is accosted by an angry layperson.

"We don't want arrogant blasphemers here! "God particle", indeed! You should leave!"

"All right" shruggs Higgs, "but you can't have Mass without me".

The priest then comes over and says to Higgs Boson, "You know, many scientists say you don't really exist."
"Well, then", replies Higgs Boson, stung, "This wouldn't be the first conversation you've had with a non-existent entity today, would it?"

A neutron goes into a bar and orders a drink.
"How much?" he aks the barman.
The barman replies, "For you, no charge."

A neutrino then wanders in. Eyeing it warily, the barman says, "We don't serve your sort in here."
"That's all right", says the neutrino. "I'm just passing through."

Over in the corner an atom is seen sobbing.
"What's the matter?" asks the barman.
"I've lost an electron," says the atom.
"Are you sure?" asks the barman.
"I'm positive", replies the atom.

Incidentally, there are, in fact, particles known as 'hadrons' - only a typo away from a joke, adolescent or otherwise... :blink:
"I hate reality but it's still the best place to get a good steak."
- Woody Allen
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Re: The God Particle

Postby Sprocket » December 18th, 2011, 12:58 pm

Also 'gluons', which may or may not be a deliberate pun, but according to John Polkinghorne (physicist turned priest), in 'The way the world is', they are the 'glue' which sticks quarks together.
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Re: The God Particle

Postby Lyn » December 19th, 2011, 9:48 pm

Hadrons are nice sounding, they ought to be in Dr Who.
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Re: The God Particle

Postby Pondero » June 11th, 2013, 11:43 am

The claim that the Higgs boson has been found, based on statistical significance,that is on the number of standard deviations from the null hypothesis - is nonsense. The p is less than 0.05.
So says Professor Stephen T Ziliak,Roosevelt University in Chicago.
I agree.
"Unsignificant Statistics" Today's National Post.

I am going to the doctors this afternoon, and if my LDL <130 mg/dL I want to stop taking a statin. Or at least reduce the dose to 5mg per tablet, per day. I am prepared to argue with her. I don't think we'll be talking about statistical significance. I think the discussion will be about the conflict in the medical profession between those who say they have harmful effects which outweigh the good and those that disagree.
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Re: The God Particle

Postby Pondero » June 11th, 2013, 9:18 pm

The doctor agreed with me and reduced my statins to 5mg.
The p value of. 05 is arbitrary, but generally accepted in Science, medicine and economics, but it is wrong to assume that if it is above. 05 the H or null hypothesis is proved correct, namely that if p is above. 05 then nothing (no Higgs boson) has been discovered.
Conversely if below. 05 then it doesn't mean that there is a Higgs boson.It means that particles heavier than 125 GeV "were with high probability not explained by the null hypothesis, " to use the words of the writer."No Higgs boson."

He goes on and on about Junk Science, and improper use of statistics, due to fallacies of logic. Together with Deidre N.McCloskey, he wrote a book entitled The Cult of Statistical Significance (2008)
I haven't read the book, but I was always wondering why statisticians make judgements about validity of this that or the other, based on an arbitrary percentage. If you accept the figure then it is always mathematically correct, but now people like the economist professor and judges are challenging these figures.
There was a court case. In the US in 2011.
It is too long to write out the Matrixx case here, but it rests on the assumption (of bad effects) of Zicam was not "statistically significant" which rests on the assumption that "statistical significance is the only reliable indication of causation, the premise is flawed." (said the Supreme Court)
Said Justice Breyer sarcastically during oral arguments: "This statistical significance always works and always doesn't work."
In other words , the high Court agrees: hard and fast significance rules are junk science and need to be scrapped.
(National Post)
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Re: The God Particle

Postby Sprocket » June 12th, 2013, 8:31 am

I've no idea what a p value is, but I think I'll take the unanimous conclusion of CERN and other physicists that the Higgs Boson has almost certainly been found over the opinion of an accountant that it hasn't. I'd bow to your superior knowledge on financial matters, but not scientific ones.
Would I be correct in guessing that you have a religious reason for rejecting the H.B.?
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Re: The God Particle

Postby Pondero » June 12th, 2013, 9:53 am

Sprocket wrote:I've no idea what a p value is, but I think I'll take the unanimous conclusion of CERN and other physicists that the Higgs Boson has almost certainly been found over the opinion of an accountant that it hasn't. I'd bow to your superior knowledge on financial matters, but not scientific ones.
Would I be correct in guessing that you have a religious reason for rejecting the H.B.?


Gee, thanks for the "superior knowledge" compliment Sprocks! No one has ever said that to me before :grin: .
Well, as the good professor of economics has implied, if the only evidence of the reality of Higgs boson is to be found based on probability statistics, then the scientists at CERN don't know if Higgs boson has been discovered or not, and according to him that is the only evidence to support the discovery.

I have one religious reason to express, and that is in the name.The God Particle. It implies that God has been discovered and there is nothing else in particle physics left to discover.That is the height of pride. Those scientists should get down on their knees and thank God for the gifts of intelligence and understanding He has given them, and ask for Wisdom.
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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