Muslim persecution of Christians

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For discussions about religion, but not specifically Christianity. Christians and members of any faith or of no faith are welcome, provided they treat others with respect at all times. Remember that detailed discussion about the beliefs of a particular faith will be difficult if no member of that faith is available to take part.

Re: Muslim persecution of Christians

Postby Phil » September 24th, 2013, 9:22 am

Pondero, I am surprised that you seek to exacerbate the global refugee problem. Christians in Pakistan are not only a minority group but they are also discriminated against economically as well as persecuted on religious grounds. Consequently they are not in a position to
leave the country and go where they are wanted
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Re: Muslim persecution of Christians

Postby Sprocket » September 24th, 2013, 9:27 am

It does seem that Islamism is the new Communism. Just as well that no one Muslim country is as militarily powerful as the old USSR.
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Re: Muslim persecution of Christians

Postby Pondero » September 24th, 2013, 9:30 am

Any better ideas Phil?
Perhaps if they moved to India, where Hindu persecution is not so great, the Christians of Pakistan could start a new life.
I doubt if the Muslim ruling government of Pakistan would allow the Christians to form their own province or country with a measure of self-rule.
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Re: Muslim persecution of Christians

Postby Sprocket » September 24th, 2013, 9:42 am

That's the attitude I'd expect from a staunch defender of Israel: just move people around hither and yon like chess pieces. Why don't the Palestinians all bugger off to Jordan? Why don't the Pakistani Christians all high-tail it to India? You can't treat people like that.
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Re: Muslim persecution of Christians

Postby Pondero » September 24th, 2013, 9:55 am

Sprocket wrote:That's the attitude I'd expect from a staunch defender of Israel: just move people around hither and yon like chess pieces. Why don't the Palestinians all bugger off to Jordan? Why don't the Pakistani Christians all high-tail it to India? You can't treat people like that.

Any better ideas Sprocket?
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Re: Muslim persecution of Christians

Postby Sprocket » September 24th, 2013, 9:56 am

Yes - don't move people around like chess-pieces, but keep up the vigilance against Islamic extremists, and put pressure on governments via diplomacy and, if it comes to it, the threat of economic boycotts, etc. Pakistan is supposed to be friendly to the West, so should respond.
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Re: Muslim persecution of Christians

Postby GregB » September 24th, 2013, 10:07 am

Agreed - you can't just expect them to uproot and leave everything behind. Moreover, they would hardly find golden opportunities on the job front in India where the local population would have priority. They would effectively become homeless refugees, hardly an enticing prospect. The natural reaction would be to fight back, but that is precisely not what Christians are required to do ("turn the other cheek...") and, in any case, being a vastly outnumbered minority, they would probably bring down even fiercer persecution on their heads. It's a grim, seemingly insoluble situation, indeed, and I'm not sure that the highly unstable government in Pakistan would respond to economic threats - assuming they were to be made on behalf of the Christian community anyway, which I doubt, not least for Pakistan's strategic pivotal role in the region between Iran and Afghanistan.
It does seem that Islamism is the new Communism. Just as well that no one Muslim country is as militarily powerful as the old USSR.

Yes, that's true, although a nuclear-armed Iran (still likely despite the charm campaign launched by the new 'moderate' president to seduce the West) would be a frightening prospect. Meanwhile, Saudi and Qatar oil revenues are used to finance various shady Islamic fundamentalist operations, including stealth activities within our own societies. And the terrorist network is spreading apace (even shopping malls are on the front line now.)
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Re: Muslim persecution of Christians

Postby Phil » September 24th, 2013, 11:12 am

Pondero wrote:Any better ideas Phil?
Perhaps if they moved to India, where Hindu persecution is not so great, the Christians of Pakistan could start a new life.
I doubt if the Muslim ruling government of Pakistan would allow the Christians to form their own province or country with a measure of self-rule.


Greg and Sprocket have already made the case that I, too, would argue. Diplomatic pressure though, can only go so far. Even in Hindu India, however, Pakistani Christians would be seen as being at the bottom of the social hierarchy, being classed as Dalits (or Untouchables). I'm afraid that on this occasion, Pondy, you have not adequately thought through your suggested solution.
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Re: Muslim persecution of Christians

Postby Pondero » September 24th, 2013, 11:18 am

I can't think of any suggested solution that will be satisfactory.A slow persecuted death for Christians in Pakistan is written in the cards.
Our churches did take in Syria refugee families,.My parish church has one such family we care for, obviously that is not enough.
The Canadian government could allow a massive influx of refugees as they once did for the Vietnamese boat people.
Apart from that I have run out of ideas.
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Re: Muslim persecution of Christians

Postby GregB » December 22nd, 2013, 8:56 am

I'm resuming the links to Raymond Ibrahim's website monitoring the Muslim persecution of Christians, which is worsening exponentially. Here's his October report:

http://www.raymondibrahim.com/muslim-pe ... ober-2013/

An extract from that reads:
"Both the massacres in Syria and Egypt received scant attention and even less condemnation by Western media and government. Instead, people like Mohamed Elibiary, an Obama administration Homeland Security adviser, condemned Copts who raise awareness of anti-Christian violence in Egypt as promoting “Islamophobic” bigotry."

Nice. I imagine there were people around in the 1930's who condemned Jews who raised awareness of anti-semitic violence in Germany as promoting "Naziphobic" bigotry*.

Another extract:
"Similarly, although Christians are habitually killed in Muslim countries—as this monthly series attests—with little condemnation or even acknowledgment by the U.S. government, when five Muslims were killed in western Burma, the United States, according to Voice of America, formally condemned it, “urging authorities to do more to address the long-standing sectarian tension there"."

So, never mind "the long-standing sectarian tension" in all Muslim countries with Christian populations and the consequent large-scale killing...

Here is the home address of Ibrahim's website, where you can find various related items as well as his September report (at the foot of the first page at present) with the title: "A Month of Horror For Christians Under Islam":
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/

[* Before 1938, the Hitler regime was still perceived in a fairly benign light.]
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