Items of interest (but maybe not long discussion)

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Re: Items of interest (but maybe not long discussion)

Postby Pondero » January 22nd, 2015, 9:15 pm

GregB wrote:
if Hippolytus was having trouble defining the Trinity I am not surprised as it wasn't properly defined until the Council of Nicea.

He wasn't having trouble, though - he got it right, as I pointed out in an earlier post. It was Zephyrinus who got it wrong (see the extract I quoted from the link.)
Arius thought that Christ was merely an inspired man.

No, he accepted that Christ was the heavenly Son of God in his pre-existence, but he believed that he was created by God the Father, having a beginning, rather than being eternal, like the Father.
From the Wikipedia article (all other sources bear this out.):

Arius argued for the supremacy of God the Father, and maintained the Son of God was a Creature, made from nothing; and that he was God's First Production (the very first thing that God actually ever did in His entire eternal existence up to that point), before all ages. Thus he insisted that only God the Father had no beginning, and that the Father alone was infinite and eternal. Arius maintained that the Son had a beginning. And he argued that everything else was created through the Son.


Arius believed as you say that he (Christ ) was created by God, having a beginning, rather than being eternal , like the Father.
That is a completely wrong idea of the Trinity. Christ is eternal like God the Father and not created by God the Father.
If Christ was merely a creature as Arius thought, he must have thought him an inspired man. There is no denying that Christ had the body of a man.
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Re: Items of interest (but maybe not long discussion)

Postby GregB » January 22nd, 2015, 9:39 pm

If Christ was merely a creature as Arius thought, he must have thought him an inspired man. There is no denying that Christ had the body of a man.

No, as the extract I quoted states:
...he was God's First Production (the very first thing that God actually ever did in His entire eternal existence up to that point), before all ages. Thus he insisted that only God the Father had no beginning, and that the Father alone was infinite and eternal. Arius maintained that the Son had a beginning. And he argued that everything else was created through the Son.

That clearly indicates that Arius believed that Christ had a pre-existence in heaven before he was incarnated as a human being ("before all ages".) The word 'creature' is used not in the sense of a physical being but in its literal sense of one created. Moreover, if he argued that "everything was created through the Son", that evidently can't have been done by Christ as a man, only in his pre-existence.
"I hate reality but it's still the best place to get a good steak."
- Woody Allen
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Re: Items of interest (but maybe not long discussion)

Postby Pondero » January 22nd, 2015, 9:50 pm

Arius is still dead wrong in Catholic theology of course in his description of the Trinity.
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Re: Items of interest (but maybe not long discussion)

Postby GregB » January 22nd, 2015, 10:19 pm

Yes, of course he is - it goes without saying. (And Protestant theology accepts the Holy Trinity based on the Athanasian Creed as well.) I've simply been trying to set out clearly Arius's (erroneous) beliefs about Christ.
"I hate reality but it's still the best place to get a good steak."
- Woody Allen
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Re: Items of interest (but maybe not long discussion)

Postby different glory » January 25th, 2015, 4:12 pm

Preserving a goodly heritage.

(five days pass.) Well, nobody seems to have noticed this. Dunno why I bother.
That I may publish with the voice of thanksgiving, and tell of all thy wondrous works. - Psalm 26
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Re: Items of interest (but maybe not long discussion)

Postby GregB » January 30th, 2015, 2:50 pm

I noticed it, but not all posts demand a response. Sometimes, the content of the post speaks for itself without further comment.
"I hate reality but it's still the best place to get a good steak."
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Re: Items of interest (but maybe not long discussion)

Postby Lyn » February 2nd, 2015, 3:05 pm

Yes, that's what I thought when I read it dg. It spoke for itself. You are not being ignored!
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Re: Items of interest (but maybe not long discussion)

Postby different glory » February 3rd, 2015, 2:41 am

Thanks, both. :)
That I may publish with the voice of thanksgiving, and tell of all thy wondrous works. - Psalm 26
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Re: Items of interest (but maybe not long discussion)

Postby Lyn » February 3rd, 2015, 11:54 am

No reason to thank, that's life. I almost never expect a reply to my posts (but I think yours are better and more thought-worthy - which may even lead to longer!).
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Re: Items of interest (but maybe not long discussion)

Postby different glory » March 17th, 2015, 1:27 pm

That I may publish with the voice of thanksgiving, and tell of all thy wondrous works. - Psalm 26
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