Muslims in Our Midst

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For discussions about religion, but not specifically Christianity. Christians and members of any faith or of no faith are welcome, provided they treat others with respect at all times. Remember that detailed discussion about the beliefs of a particular faith will be difficult if no member of that faith is available to take part.

Re: Muslims in Our Midst

Postby GregB » August 29th, 2014, 12:57 pm

Fair enough, Vix. I was merely offering my reading of your post. I know you're not really one for judgmentalism. In any event, do read my post on the threat of Islam, though if you have quibbles, please back them up with hard facts (and, believe me, the current facts are hard.)

Otherwise, I think I may back off from what threatens to become another quagmire in terms of polemics.

(Although I can't resist a parting shot: try to watch any videos of Michael Coren on Sun TV, and others there.)
"I hate reality but it's still the best place to get a good steak."
- Woody Allen
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Re: Muslims in Our Midst

Postby Lyn » August 29th, 2014, 2:07 pm

That's alright Greg, I wasn't upset, just surprised. I do believe this could be an interesting and informative discussion though, I was even thinking about it all when I went back downstairs and did myself something to eat after my last post. I hope others will say more. There really is no need for it to become a slanging match. What made me sit up and take notice most of all was the fact that a person's skin colour was brought into it, it never occurred to me that anyone - at least on here, in this day and age - would be bothered by the colour of someone else. Makes me think of Dame Edna's phrase, "Tinted people". I find that sad and disturbing.

Edited because I repeated myself
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Re: Muslims in Our Midst

Postby Val » August 29th, 2014, 7:30 pm

Pondero wrote:I believe in democracy, and as Canadians today run the country what we say goes. If we want a predominantly white country then so be it. We can vote on it and make it our law.
The ancestors of the native Americans who roamed the country, (for the most part they were hunters not farmers) are now called First Nations, and are subsidized in their existence by the Canadian taxpayer.The Supreme Court has given them more rights recently, and although I think they get too much, I accept that.



Pondero, The First nations of Canada didn’t roam aimlessly they followed the seasons for food and trade they hunted and fished and in the autumn they gathered crops of nuts and berries and mushrooms this was well organised with proper systems of governance, the clans/tribes would meet at least every year to iron out difficulties or trade routes or just to trade and be sociable, just because they didn't set up fences and build concrete houses didn’t mean they didn’t own the land, when the white man came he put up fences and blocked their migratory routes he didn't understand or didn't care about their rights or their history or their ownership of the lands, they were killed in their thousands to make way for progress so that the foreign invaders could build roads and towns and graze and pollute the lands they once treated so carefully, the white man brought them disease and alcohol and hatred and weapons that could kill from a great distance and they forgot the old ways and started to live like the invaders but they were outcasts and didn't and don’t fit in.
And so they have to be subsidised and by the Canadian tax dollar … well isn't that so typical of these free loaders.

By the way a similar system existed in Palestine as tribes moved herds of animals as the seasons changed and you’d never guess what happened to them ………
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”
John Stuart Mill

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
Edmund Burke
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Re: Muslims in Our Midst

Postby Sweet Peace » August 29th, 2014, 10:58 pm

I think that 'white people' lost any claim to racial superiority with the dropping of the Hiroshima bomb. They may be clever tool makers but they have lost their soul as evidenced by the rapid destruction of our ecosystem. Every piece of plastic ever produced still exists, yet people buy Christmas themed dog bowls only to throw them out a week or two later. This must stop! Are we really going to have a world that is increasingly uninhabitable while people quarrel about petty matters such as racial superiority? When nine million Syrians have become refugees are we going to pull up the drawbridge and say I got here first, while the rich nations continue to bomb the crap out of anyone else with oil?
Modern American Proverb - Our current form of Capitalism has no concept of right and wrong. It only recognises what is profitable and what you can get away with. And when you have the Government, the Media, the Military and the Police on your payroll, you can get away with pretty much anything.

Yes, I think Muslims are a concern but we're not going to get anywhere by hating them and by professing racial superiority..
Where sin abounded, grace did much more abound.
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Re: Muslims in Our Midst

Postby GregB » August 30th, 2014, 7:34 am

I think that 'white people' lost any claim to racial superiority with the dropping of the Hiroshima bomb. They may be clever tool makers but they have lost their soul as evidenced by the rapid destruction of our ecosystem.

I disagree with your first assertion (but more in terms of moral bearings, not racial superiority) as there were compelling military reasons for its use (though the justification for the second atomic bomb dropped on Nagasaki is debatable.) Such large-scale slaughter (though more died in conventional bombing raids on Tokyo, as well as Axis cities in Europe like Dresden) is terrible, of course, but how does it stand up when set alongside the Rwanda genocide when almost a million Tutsis were massacred by Hutus or the more than a million Cambodians murdered by the Pol Pot regime or the mutual slaughter of millions of Muslims and Hindus in post-Partition India. I'm not saying, I hasten to add, that there was ever any racial superiority in any purely ethnic sense on the part of white people, but do let's keep a sense of proportion when we talk about mass slaughter and its justification, or lack of it, and the cancelling out of an entire civilisation and its positive achievements because of some tragic decisions and acts along the troubled path of history.

Western society has certainly abused the environment, to its great cost (though it's China which is one of the biggest polluters on the planet), but it still leads in so many beneficial areas, in 'good' science and technology, in medicine, in social welfare, etc, so let's not throw the baby - and its soul - out with the bathwater just yet. And there are certainly many negative aspects of capitalism and many abuses but, again, let's not ditch it entirely, especially for the sake of alternative systems which have proved unworkable. The mixed economy is still the best tried-and-trusted model, in my view anyway.
Yes, I think Muslims are a concern but we're not going to get anywhere by hating them and by professing racial superiority..

Of course we shouldn't hate them en masse (though I think it's right to hate murderous savages like ISIS and Boko Haram), but I don't think we should be bending over backwards to accommodate or placate them, especially when, as happens so often, they play the victimhood card. As for 'racial superiority', that's a category mistake a lot of people make these days. Islam is not a race (it's a religion and a political ideology) and there are Muslims from a broad spectrum of races and nations (even white ones from Bosnia, Kosovo and Chechnya, for example), so we cannot talk about 'racism' when talking about Islam and Muslims as a collective.
"I hate reality but it's still the best place to get a good steak."
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Re: Muslims in Our Midst

Postby Pondero » September 2nd, 2014, 10:52 pm

Sweet Peace.
I didn't mention racial superiority. What I said was quite different :scratch:
Last edited by Pondero on September 2nd, 2014, 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Re: Muslims in Our Midst

Postby Pondero » September 2nd, 2014, 11:24 pm

Sprocket wrote:
Pondero wrote:This afternoon I went to the public library and discovered upstairs a 'learning centre' Students were learning Powerpoint between the hours of 2 and 4 pm. Among the tattooed arms of some of the men and women there was a woman on a computer like all the others, dressed in a niquab and hijab, the whole kit and kibudle, with only a slit for her eyes, her hands were brown.. Now, there is nothing in the Koran saying women have to dress like this, and she apparently doesn't have a husband (if married) who keeps her 'barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, or he wouldn't have let her out. She probably is university educated and single.
Why I ask myself does she dress like this?

Why the fuck, I ask myself, shouldn't she, and what business is it of yours?


The kind of reply I've come to expect from you!
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Re: Muslims in Our Midst

Postby Val » August 26th, 2016, 9:28 am

Val wrote:
Pondero wrote:I believe in democracy, and as Canadians today run the country what we say goes. If we want a predominantly white country then so be it. We can vote on it and make it our law.
The ancestors of the native Americans who roamed the country, (for the most part they were hunters not farmers) are now called First Nations, and are subsidized in their existence by the Canadian taxpayer.The Supreme Court has given them more rights recently, and although I think they get too much, I accept that.



Pondero, The First nations of Canada didn’t roam aimlessly they followed the seasons for food and trade they hunted and fished and in the autumn they gathered crops of nuts and berries and mushrooms this was well organised with proper systems of governance, the clans/tribes would meet at least every year to iron out difficulties or trade routes or just to trade and be sociable, just because they didn't set up fences and build concrete houses didn’t mean they didn’t own the land, when the white man came he put up fences and blocked their migratory routes he didn't understand or didn't care about their rights or their history or their ownership of the lands, they were killed in their thousands to make way for progress so that the foreign invaders could build roads and towns and graze and pollute the lands they once treated so carefully, the white man brought them disease and alcohol and hatred and weapons that could kill from a great distance and they forgot the old ways and started to live like the invaders but they were outcasts and didn't and don’t fit in.
And so they have to be subsidised and by the Canadian tax dollar … well isn't that so typical of these free loaders.

By the way a similar system existed in Palestine as tribes moved herds of animals as the seasons changed and you’d never guess what happened to them ………



Still waiting on a reply 2 years on...
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”
John Stuart Mill

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
Edmund Burke
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Re: Muslims in Our Midst

Postby Pondero » August 26th, 2016, 10:48 am

I don't reply to what I consider nonsense.
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Re: Muslims in Our Midst

Postby Val » August 26th, 2016, 11:22 am

Pondero wrote:I don't reply to what I consider nonsense.



So you don't consider the the lives of the First nations of Canada as valuable? is that because they are not catholic? or maybe even Christian or is it because they are different in some way
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”
John Stuart Mill

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
Edmund Burke
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Val
 
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Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:22 am
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