Je ne sais pas Charlie Hebdo

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Je ne sais pas Charlie Hebdo

Postby Pondero » January 14th, 2015, 11:06 am

There is a difference in Christian theology between freedom and license, and Charlie Hebdo often transgressed to the latter.License should not be tolerated. Specifically, in the case of Charlie Hebdo, cartoons showing Pope Benedict holding aloft a condem, or nuns doing sexual things is blasphemous. It wouldn't be allowed in Canada,and heaven knows we are well on our way to perdition.
So, I do not know Charlie Hebdo. Freedom of speech is not an absolute.

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Re: Je ne sais pas Charlie Hebdo

Postby Sprocket » January 14th, 2015, 10:21 pm

You say you don't know Charlie Hebdo, but you seem to know quite a lot about it. This distinction of yours between freedom and licence, which you bring up at regular intervals, seems to boil down to no more than that freedom is what you like; licence is what you don't like. As I said on another thread, all religions and ideologies should be ridiculed on a regular basis: it's good for them. People who find Charlie Hebdo (or Private Eye) offensive don't have to read it.
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Re: Je ne sais pas Charlie Hebdo

Postby Theophilus » January 14th, 2015, 10:30 pm

Have you ever read Charlie Hebdo, Sprocket? I don't think it is the French equivalent of Private Eye by any stretch of the imagination.
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Re: Je ne sais pas Charlie Hebdo

Postby Pondero » January 14th, 2015, 10:37 pm

Sprocket wrote:You say you don't know Charlie Hebdo, but you seem to know quite a lot about it. This distinction of yours between freedom and licence, which you bring up at regular intervals, seems to boil down to no more than that freedom is what you like; licence is what you don't like. As I said on another thread, all religions and ideologies should be ridiculed on a regular basis: it's good for them. People who find Charlie Hebdo (or Private Eye) offensive don't have to read it.


My distinction between freedom and license is based on natural law. You can't say what you want all the time. You can't shout fire in a crowded theatre. Because it is wrong. There is a right and there is a wrong, I think we all agree on that.

Charlie Hebdo goes too far in its ridicule of religion. I think we Catholics have put up with a lot of crap and it's about time we took a lesson from the Muslims, in calling a spade a spade.Blasphemy is blasphemy. And Christianity is the true religion. Islam is not.

I don't have to read Hebdo but it is not in the common good that everything in it is published..
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Re: Je ne sais pas Charlie Hebdo

Postby different glory » January 15th, 2015, 4:06 am

I agree that freedom of speech is not absolute, Pondy, but I don't agree that cartoons (or whatever) mocking popes or nuns are, strictly speaking, blasphemous. Blasphemy is against God, and popes and nuns are not God. The cartoons (etc) may be rude, shameful, even disgusting (I haven't looked!) but still not, strictly speaking, blasphemous.
There's plenty of art (etc) around which is, of course, and more's the pity.
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Re: Je ne sais pas Charlie Hebdo

Postby Lyn » January 15th, 2015, 12:02 pm

There is no point in being unnecessarily offensive. It's hurtful to people, young people often don't know how to deal with it when their faith is mocked. We've all felt it at some point. Often it is due to ignorance, people do not understand the beliefs of others but, when it is explained to them, even if they don't agree with it all they should leave it alone, not their business. It's no-one else's business what you, I or Pondy believe. We can discuss things in the right place amongst ourselves and read about the faiths of others so that we understand. I feel uncomfortable talking about Islam on here because we have no Muslim posters (there used to be a very good Muslim section on the now defunct BBC forum). Similarly I would not like to join in talk about, eg, the LDS because we have no-one who is LDS - we used to, a smashing poster called Christian Hanson but he faded away.
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Re: Je ne sais pas Charlie Hebdo

Postby Theophilus » January 15th, 2015, 1:55 pm

different glory wrote:I agree that freedom of speech is not absolute, Pondy, but I don't agree that cartoons (or whatever) mocking popes or nuns are, strictly speaking, blasphemous. Blasphemy is against God, and popes and nuns are not God.


Charlie Hebdo has a particular "thing" against Catholicism and Islam, but their cartoons do extend to blasphemous depictions of God, Jesus and the Holy Trinity. I won't post as you (rightly) don't seem to be interested in finding them, but such offensive depictions do exist.
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Re: Je ne sais pas Charlie Hebdo

Postby Bev » January 15th, 2015, 2:33 pm

different glory wrote:I agree that freedom of speech is not absolute, Pondy, but I don't agree that cartoons (or whatever) mocking popes or nuns are, strictly speaking, blasphemous. Blasphemy is against God, and popes and nuns are not God. The cartoons (etc) may be rude, shameful, even disgusting (I haven't looked!) but still not, strictly speaking, blasphemous.
There's plenty of art (etc) around which is, of course, and more's the pity.


Agree! The blasphemers in the New Testament were the religious who were misrepresenting God. But, as for the unbelieving masses? Jesus, even after being scourged, crucified, and mocked in the most humiliating and painful way asked God to forgive them.

I also agree with Sprocket. Any faith that is affected by the mocking of unbelievers is of no value at all.
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Re: Je ne sais pas Charlie Hebdo

Postby Theophilus » January 15th, 2015, 2:35 pm

Bev wrote:I also agree with Sprocket. Any faith that is affected by the mocking of unbelievers is of no value at all.


Sprocket didn't say that, though.
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Re: Je ne sais pas Charlie Hebdo

Postby Bev » January 15th, 2015, 2:46 pm

You're right, Theo. He actually said this:

Sprocket wrote: As I said on another thread, all religions and ideologies should be ridiculed on a regular basis: it's good for them.


I just saw that one of the reasons it can be good is it separates those of true faith from those who are more worried about forcing others to act a certain way.
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