Woman - know your limits!

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Woman - know your limits!

Postby Sprocket » August 24th, 2016, 1:12 pm

Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason.
Sir John Harington (1561-1620)
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Re: Woman - know your limits!

Postby GregB » August 24th, 2016, 4:19 pm

The ultra-Orthodox are, indeed, worthy of scorn, as are extremists, including misogynists, in all religions, but I'm not sure of the motive in posting this article here in the politics section when, in any event, it surely belongs to one of the religion threads. Perhaps Steve might elaborate...
"The wiles of dissembling fate afford us the illusion of freedom, yet in the end always lead us into the same trap."
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Re: Woman - know your limits!

Postby Lyn » August 24th, 2016, 4:50 pm

I would think "women's rights" would be a political issue.

I do know this community quite well and the fact is the men don't (generally) go to university either; girls are slightly better educated than boys whose education is mainly religious and goes on forever. By 'our' standards, education for both is pretty poor, eg witness the 'pidgin' English in which they write, however they believe it equips them for life in their community and it does. If they need a doctor they go to one outside, someone Jewish but less Orthodox.

The roles of men and women are clearly defined, however the women are far more powerful and capable than the men, who seem to be somewhat in awe of them. Women run businesses as well as being heavily involved in social organisation; they rule the roost. So the article is misleading.
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Re: Woman - know your limits!

Postby GregB » August 24th, 2016, 5:10 pm

Of course women's rights is a political issue but I don't see that the very specific and limited-in-numbers question of their rights under Orthodox Judaism is really relevant here. As an anecdote about one quite small, confined example of religious fundamentalism it's interesting, not to mention disquieting, but what more is there to say?
"The wiles of dissembling fate afford us the illusion of freedom, yet in the end always lead us into the same trap."
- Jean Cocteau
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Re: Woman - know your limits!

Postby Lyn » August 24th, 2016, 5:19 pm

Nothing really but I imagine Steve posited it because he thought there might be rights issues that we could debate and campaign for and maybe put right (or not).
We could discuss the customs of the Satmar and others like them on a different thread but not much point without input from people of those communities and they aren't going to travel to St Thad's :) . They have their own internet forums.
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Re: Woman - know your limits!

Postby GregB » August 24th, 2016, 5:38 pm

Nothing really but I imagine Steve posited it because he thought there might be rights issues that we could debate and campaign for and maybe put right (or not).

Then why not invoke the gross abuses of human rights, especially regarding women, amongst the very much bigger Muslim community, which is much more significant and disturbing? That really would be something to campaign for, not that it would change anything and would be stupidly branded as Islamophobia from the start. There's nothing to debate and campaign for apropos the small Jewish Orthodox community, whose closeted retrograde ideas and practices have no bearing on the wider world, unlike Islam.
"The wiles of dissembling fate afford us the illusion of freedom, yet in the end always lead us into the same trap."
- Jean Cocteau
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Re: Woman - know your limits!

Postby Lyn » August 24th, 2016, 8:03 pm

I was only guessing why Steve posted this article. He may just have thought it was interesting, he'll have to answer that one. I did actually find it interesting but at the same time, quite amusing. It wouldn't have occurred to me to compare and contrast with anyone else.

Very interesting that the Satmars are vehemently anti-Zionist whereas other, similar, groups with whom they live alongside, are Zionist. There are so many opinions within Judaism which is fascinating but confusing to the outsider.

It would be good to post the article on a 'Faith/Belief Sharing' forum, which we don't have; however sharing a little bit of Jewish belief and culture with no Jewish people would be somewhat arrogant and one sided.
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Re: Woman - know your limits!

Postby GregB » August 24th, 2016, 8:12 pm

Lyn wrote:It would be good to post the article on a 'Faith/Belief Sharing' forum, which we don't have.

We do have Talking Stick, though, which is akin to that:
"For discussions about religion, but not specifically Christianity."
"The wiles of dissembling fate afford us the illusion of freedom, yet in the end always lead us into the same trap."
- Jean Cocteau
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Re: Woman - know your limits!

Postby Sprocket » August 24th, 2016, 8:58 pm

Possibly not the right section, but I found it quite amusing, in a despairing kind of way. it was posted on 'Facebook' by Ben "Paleologus" Donald, late of this parish.
Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason.
Sir John Harington (1561-1620)
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Re: Woman - know your limits!

Postby Sprocket » August 24th, 2016, 8:59 pm

Moved.
Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason.
Sir John Harington (1561-1620)
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Sprocket
 
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