Evolution and God

For discussions about religion, but not specifically Christianity.
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For discussions about religion, but not specifically Christianity. Christians and members of any faith or of no faith are welcome, provided they treat others with respect at all times. Remember that detailed discussion about the beliefs of a particular faith will be difficult if no member of that faith is available to take part.

Re: Evolution and God

Postby NicholasMarks » October 23rd, 2016, 12:46 pm

Lyn wrote:Thanks, good. Bit clearer now.
Will try to recall why I thought the "Word" was Christ.


I'm sorry...I should have been clearer...it is a common misunderstanding of many churches to say Jesus is this initial word of God because of course he is the word of God made manifest to us...just one of those truths within a bigger truth.
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Re: Evolution and God

Postby GregB » October 23rd, 2016, 1:53 pm

NicholasMarks wrote:
Lyn wrote:Thanks, good. Bit clearer now.
Will try to recall why I thought the "Word" was Christ.


I'm sorry...I should have been clearer...it is a common misunderstanding of many churches to say Jesus is this initial word of God because of course he is the word of God made manifest to us...just one of those truths within a bigger truth.

No, it is the understanding of the Christian church from its inception that: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1) The Word (or Logos) is Jesus Christ and the Bible text makes plain his divinity and eternal nature.

And please don't come back to me with more of the usual spiel; you have absolutely nothing to teach anyone here. Indeed, one of the reasons why you cannot be taken seriously as a teacher or bible expositor is that, in the first place, your strange hotch potch of ideas is clearly not shared by anyone else, and in the second place you never provide any sources, references, books, other written material, etc. whatsoever to support your views, which is hardly surprising as there aren't any. Both these factors completely discredit your ideas.

Moreover, you're constantly saying that Christ taught the same things when that is clearly not true (eg. he never said anything about electricity, 'genetic health' and other fanciful stuff from your rag bag of ideas.) You know, there are three sombre texts in scripture with clear warnings not to add to that which has been spoken or revealed therein, Deuteronomy 4:2, Proverbs 30:6 and Revelation 22:18. Let me finish by quoting the second one: "Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar." Quite so...
"I hate reality but it's still the best place to get a good steak."
- Woody Allen
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Re: Evolution and God

Postby Lyn » October 23rd, 2016, 3:31 pm

godfrey wrote:
Lyn wrote:Thanks, good. Bit clearer now.
Will try to recall why I thought the "Word" was Christ.


The Word became flesh and dwelt among us - John 1.14



GregB wrote: No, it is the understanding of the Christian church from its inception that: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1) The Word (or Logos) is Jesus Christ and the Bible text makes plain his divinity and eternal nature.


Yes to both, what I have always believed and was taught at various times.

Nicholas says: "... he is the word of God made manifest to us...just one of those truths within a bigger truth."

It is, no doubt, a truth within a bigger truth, most things we believe about God are. However I wonder if you believe that Jesus is God or the son of God but not divine? There are Christians who believe that, 'socinians' - the Unitarians for example. Or maybe you believe that it isn't an important distinction.

I ask so that I understand your beliefs better, which improves discussion.
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Re: Evolution and God

Postby NicholasMarks » October 23rd, 2016, 5:42 pm

Lyn wrote:
godfrey wrote:
Lyn wrote:Thanks, good. Bit clearer now.
Will try to recall why I thought the "Word" was Christ.


The Word became flesh and dwelt among us - John 1.14



GregB wrote: No, it is the understanding of the Christian church from its inception that: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1) The Word (or Logos) is Jesus Christ and the Bible text makes plain his divinity and eternal nature.


Yes to both, what I have always believed and was taught at various times.

Nicholas says: "... he is the word of God made manifest to us...just one of those truths within a bigger truth."

It is, no doubt, a truth within a bigger truth, most things we believe about God are. However I wonder if you believe that Jesus is God or the son of God but not divine? There are Christians who believe that, 'socinians' - the Unitarians for example. Or maybe you believe that it isn't an important distinction.

I ask so that I understand your beliefs better, which improves discussion.



Jesus is the son of God...he could have been God's equal but he declined this saying he wished to remain the servant of his loving father...a truly righteous response.

It all gets very complicated but Jesus was perfect...a perfect spirit in a perfect body. His greatest chore, here on planet Earth was to retain this perfection regardless of what we threw at him, whilst at the same time delivering God's righteous message.. He did, and in so doing had to face a terrible death, made far worse because he was perfect and, as such, had acute senses and clarity of mind rather than the normal fuddled mind without much feeling or caring. The scammers who had taken over the Jewish people didn't like what the people were saying and doing because they weren't able to control them via their oppressive techniques...the people were expecting more from their leaders who had no ability to be fair, or be righteous..Jesus had to be silenced. In silencing Jesus they opened up a flood-gate...Jesus was resurrected and in the process he went down into the pit that is the spiritual home of everyone after life, and snatched the keys of life and death...which means...if we follow his teaching, accurately, we can achieve resurrection too. A little differently because we aren't perfect but in a controlled rebirth into the next generation in a new vessel...and this is possible because a righteous spirit is indestructible and well able to be induced into a healthier receptacle via righteous laws.
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Re: Evolution and God

Postby Pondero » October 23rd, 2016, 5:52 pm

Jesus is the Second person of the Blessed Trinity, The Holy Spirit is the third person, and God the Father is the first person of the Blessed Trinity.
There is but one God with three persons .or to put it a better way, there are three persons in one God.And all three existed from eternity.
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Re: Evolution and God

Postby NicholasMarks » October 23rd, 2016, 6:20 pm

Pondero wrote:Jesus is the Second person of the Blessed Trinity, The Holy Spirit is the third person, and God the Father is the first person of the Blessed Trinity.
There is but one God with three persons .or to put it a better way, there are three persons in one God.And all three existed from eternity.


On points of contradiction it is best to let the Holy Bible be our guide. The Holy Bible is written in honest, open language. It is written this way because righteousness responds according to openness and outward thinking. It is vanity and deviousness that turns us inward looking and, thereby into the arms of the scurrilous.

If we read the teaching of Jesus honestly and openly we are learning about righteousness and what is actually said is actually the truth...Jesus Christ is the son of Almighty God. Two beings each bearing witness of the other. Each saying that God's laws of righteousness are universally accurate and true and all the angels in Heaven agree...they will support their deity through thick and thin...and we will be part of that deity if we like and follow what Jesus tells us, accurately...and the Biblical signs say it will be soon.
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Re: Evolution and God

Postby Pondero » October 23rd, 2016, 10:05 pm

The Holy Bible does acknowledge the existence of Father (God) , Son (Jesus Christ) and the Holy Spirit, I hope we can agree on that, even if the relationship in the Holy Trinity as I described it , you may not agree with. the following passages support my claims.
See Matthew 28:19 , and 2 Cor 13:13 , I Cor:12: 4-6, and Eph 4:4-6.

The above has nothing to do with evolution, but , back to the topic I do believe in Intelligent Design as opposed to its opposite, chance.This is self evident to my mind, and it presupposes an intelligent creator, whom we call God.
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Re: Evolution and God

Postby NicholasMarks » October 28th, 2016, 11:59 pm

Pondero wrote:The Holy Bible does acknowledge the existence of Father (God) , Son (Jesus Christ) and the Holy Spirit, I hope we can agree on that, even if the relationship in the Holy Trinity as I described it , you may not agree with. the following passages support my claims.
See Matthew 28:19 , and 2 Cor 13:13 , I Cor:12: 4-6, and Eph 4:4-6.

The above has nothing to do with evolution, but , back to the topic I do believe in Intelligent Design as opposed to its opposite, chance.This is self evident to my mind, and it presupposes an intelligent creator, whom we call God.


I too believe in the 'special creation'...it corresponds with Biblical teaching to say that in the beginning God's active force surveyed this planet. It must have suffered a massive astronomical catastrophe because darkness was on the face of the watery deep. This implies to me the planet was tidally locked...it wasn't rotating...all evolutioary life had been lost.All God had to do was give the planet a little spin and the chemistry already contained from before would spin back into life...with a few specially added touches...even seed already in the earth would restart on their seasonal cycles

.
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Re: Evolution and God

Postby NicholasMarks » October 29th, 2016, 12:06 am

NicholasMarks wrote:
Pondero wrote:The Holy Bible does acknowledge the existence of Father (God) , Son (Jesus Christ) and the Holy Spirit, I hope we can agree on that, even if the relationship in the Holy Trinity as I described it , you may not agree with. the following passages support my claims.
See Matthew 28:19 , and 2 Cor 13:13 , I Cor:12: 4-6, and Eph 4:4-6.

The above has nothing to do with evolution, but , back to the topic I do believe in Intelligent Design as opposed to its opposite, chance.This is self evident to my mind, and it presupposes an intelligent creator, whom we call God.


I too believe in the 'special creation'...it corresponds with Biblical teaching to say that in the beginning God's active force surveyed this planet. It must have suffered a massive astronomical catastrophe because darkness was on the face of the watery deep. This implies to me the planet was tidally locked...it wasn't rotating...all evolutioary life had been lost. All God had to do was give the planet a little spin and the chemistry already contained from before would spin back into
life...with a few specially added touches...even seed already in the earth would restart on their seasonal cycles

.
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Re: Evolution and God

Postby NicholasMarks » October 31st, 2016, 9:42 am

When planet Earth was first brought into existence by the wild laws of the unrefined universe, trillions of part-atoms accompanied it. Not difficult when you realise that all atoms are produced within a sun and it certainly fits the pattern to say that as heavier atoms were spewed out from various depths within that star that some lighter atoms that were being produced at the stars surface were dragged from their anchorage along with the others, trillions of which were in mid-process and not yet, fully formed hydrogen atoms.

All these atoms then coalesced into planet Earth and, carried here, attached to hydrogen atoms, were these trillions of part-atoms…going everywhere the hydrogen atoms went, whether land, sea, or air…wild, unrefined life, was now inevitable, especially as these part-atoms, with a measure of the same, inbuilt, imploding force, that all atoms have, would find a strong magnetic partner when they came together in pairs. So, from the word go these two invisible halves that make up the living cell were seekers of each other, had an inbuilt imploding force, and could attach to atoms and interact with them using electrical processes that we can rarely see, only calculate into existence.

We now had an unrefined planet, supporting unrefined life, in an unrefined universe…but all this was to change. Like our world today, this unrefined universe didn’t bargained for Almighty God.
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