Jehovah's Witnesses - persecution pending

For discussions about religion, but not specifically Christianity.
Forum rules
For discussions about religion, but not specifically Christianity. Christians and members of any faith or of no faith are welcome, provided they treat others with respect at all times. Remember that detailed discussion about the beliefs of a particular faith will be difficult if no member of that faith is available to take part.

Jehovah's Witnesses - persecution pending

Postby different glory » April 21st, 2017, 9:59 pm

A court in Russia has just declared the JWs an extremist organisation, banned any public JW activity and ordered the confiscation of property - more details here.

(Also here.)

Has this made it into the mainstream UK/US press, or is it getting much attention? Has there been any statement of solidarity with the JWs that anyone's heard?
I hold no brief for them, and indeed am pretty hazy on their beliefs, but this is shaping up to be serious persecution. I expect jailing will follow.
That I may publish with the voice of thanksgiving, and tell of all thy wondrous works. - Psalm 26
User avatar
different glory
 
Posts: 3544
Joined: July 25th, 2008, 3:58 am

Re: Jehovah's Witnesses - persecution pending

Postby Sprocket » April 22nd, 2017, 6:35 am

JWs are tiresome nutjobs, but this is wrong.
Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason.
Sir John Harington (1561-1620)
User avatar
Sprocket
 
Posts: 16054
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:21 am
Location: Hemel Hempstead, Herts.

Re: Jehovah's Witnesses - persecution pending

Postby Lyn » April 22nd, 2017, 10:16 am

I agree Sprocks, it's very wrong (& rather typical of Holy Mother Russia, that may be racist).
(Wonderful to see a new thread in Talking Stick, a much neglected forum. A few weeks ago I read all the threads on here and was extremely stimulated, there was so much that I had forgotten, which we used to discuss in depth.)
Lyn
 
Posts: 48735
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:25 am

Re: Jehovah's Witnesses - persecution pending

Postby GregB » April 22nd, 2017, 1:24 pm

Agreed that it is wrong to ban a religious organisation which poses no threat to any country or nation (as opposed to Islam, which in its various forms of direct violence or stealth jihad, ie. mass immigration, certainly does, especially to our Judeo-Christian civilisation - but that's another thread.)

Since we were called on by JW's knocking on our door over twenty years ago, I've maintained friendly contacts with those I've encountered as I believe that's the correct Christian approach, but endless discussions on faith and beliefs have admittedly never got anywhere, so conditioned are they in the 'teachings' of the Watchtower Society. (Again, that could be a distinct thread in itself.)

Let me just say that I'm sure this move on the part of the Russian authorities will be perceived and interpreted in the JW's Brooklyn HQ as the opening move of their 'predicted' attack by Babylon the Great (ie. all the 'false' religions apart from the JW's) against the true religion (ie. the JW's, all eight million of them worldwide) prior to the Great Tribulation which leads into Armageddon, one of the planks of their twisted and bizarre eschatological interpretations of prophetic Biblical books such as Daniel and Revelation, as well as Christ's words in Matthew 24 and Luke 21. (Although there are many fringe Protestant sects which subscribe to the same or similar distortions.)

The organisation (their term; they don't use the word 'church') was proscribed by the Nazi regime and many JW's were sent to concentration camps. Their courage in the face of that is certainly admirable, though it's sad that it was for the sake of a false religion.

In the end, more worrying is the increasing tendency of Putin's authoritarian, ultra-Russian ethnic anti-Western nationalism to suffocate anything which opposes it - and will even resort to killing of opponents, which it has done time and time again.
"The wiles of dissembling fate afford us the illusion of freedom, yet in the end always lead us into the same trap."
- Jean Cocteau
User avatar
GregB
 
Posts: 15808
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:23 am
Location: Barcelona, Spain

Re: Jehovah's Witnesses - persecution pending

Postby different glory » April 23rd, 2017, 12:19 pm

It seems that this is being egged on by the Russian Orthodox hierarchy. I'm hoping that there will be serious reaction and protest from the Orthodox outside Russia. (And a few words from other denominations wouldn't go astray, either.)
That I may publish with the voice of thanksgiving, and tell of all thy wondrous works. - Psalm 26
User avatar
different glory
 
Posts: 3544
Joined: July 25th, 2008, 3:58 am

Re: Jehovah's Witnesses - persecution pending

Postby GregB » April 23rd, 2017, 1:36 pm

I doubt very much if there will be a reaction from Orthodox churches outside Russia. The Watchtower organisation condemns all other religious entities outside their own, Christian and non-Christian, as the spawn of the devil and destined for total destruction at Armageddon (which is always just around the corner, as it has been for the 150 years of the their existence.) Why should real Christian churches care a fig about what happens to this ludicrous false religion (short of real persecution which one wishes on no one, of course)? They will soon fizzle out anyway given that their whole prophetic structure is an increasingly fragile house of cards.
"The wiles of dissembling fate afford us the illusion of freedom, yet in the end always lead us into the same trap."
- Jean Cocteau
User avatar
GregB
 
Posts: 15808
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:23 am
Location: Barcelona, Spain

Re: Jehovah's Witnesses - persecution pending

Postby Lyn » April 23rd, 2017, 2:06 pm

different glory wrote:It seems that this is being egged on by the Russian Orthodox hierarchy. I'm hoping that there will be serious reaction and protest from the Orthodox outside Russia. (And a few words from other denominations wouldn't go astray, either.)


I agree. It's a matter of principle for us to object to this minority religion being persecuted whether we like them or not. They have even had property taken from them by the Russian authorities. If it happens to them it could happen to anyone, Religious Jews have been persecuted in Russia and are not viewed very sympathetically now. The Orthodox were persecuted by Soviet Russia, one would think they would have some sympathy but I suppose they are protecting themselves. They were always the church in Russia, in league with government and royalty prior to 1917, nothing much changes.
Lyn
 
Posts: 48735
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:25 am

Re: Jehovah's Witnesses - persecution pending

Postby Sprocket » April 23rd, 2017, 3:10 pm

Odd fact - in the days when the Soviet Union was still intact, after Stalin's death, there were two types of Russian Orthodox church in the UK and other Western countries: one type was descended from zealous Orthodox types who had refused to compromise their faith, and had been forced to flee Russia after the revolution; the other type were representatives of the church in Russia, operating in the west for the benefit of ex-pat Russians, and made up of Orthodox Christians who had made the compromises necessary to survive under the Soviet regime. Naturally, they hated each other.
Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason.
Sir John Harington (1561-1620)
User avatar
Sprocket
 
Posts: 16054
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:21 am
Location: Hemel Hempstead, Herts.

Re: Jehovah's Witnesses - persecution pending

Postby Lyn » April 23rd, 2017, 6:46 pm

I didn't know that, Sprocket

In Walsingham there was a small ex-pat community of Russian Orthodox monks. The Walsingham community supported them and they had a shop selling eikons, paintings and other religious paraphernalia. There was a tiny Russian Orthodox church which I visited on several occasions, very dark and quite beautiful. I wonder if they are still there, haven't been to Walsingham for years.

Here it is: http://exarchate.org.uk/church-st-serap ... walsingham

Well we have gone off the subject of the plight of the Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia but they are not forgotten, dg.
Lyn
 
Posts: 48735
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:25 am

Re: Jehovah's Witnesses - persecution pending

Postby GregB » July 17th, 2017, 6:44 pm

It seems the ban is now definitive and permanent:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40635267

Although the ban may be deplorable in terms of our concept of religious freedom, the sheer cynicism of this comment is notable given the fact that the JW's regard all other religions, without exception, as the work of the devil and will be destroyed at 'Armageddon' (from the article):
"The group's Russia spokesman, Yaroslav Sivulsky, said that "religious freedom in Russia is over"."

No, only for the JW's.
"The wiles of dissembling fate afford us the illusion of freedom, yet in the end always lead us into the same trap."
- Jean Cocteau
User avatar
GregB
 
Posts: 15808
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:23 am
Location: Barcelona, Spain


Return to Talking Stick

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron