Right to die case can proceed

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A place for serious discussion on any non-religious topic

Re: Right to die case can proceed

Postby Lyn » March 13th, 2012, 9:54 pm

Yes in a way but it was you who mentioned same sex marriage first Pondy, and political parties. Neither same sex marriage nor assisted suicide have anything to do with party politics. There are people of all parties believe in both - but let's leave same sex marriage to one side for now (you are right, we don't have it here - yet).
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Re: Right to die case can proceed

Postby Pondero » March 13th, 2012, 10:12 pm

Victoria Plum wrote:Yes in a way but it was you who mentioned same sex marriage first Pondy, and political parties. Neither same sex marriage nor assisted suicide have anything to do with party politics. There are people of all parties believe in both - but let's leave same sex marriage to one side for now (you are right, we don't have it here - yet).


In Canada it has a lot to do with party politics. Anyway, give it a rest, it is much ado about nothing.
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Re: Right to die case can proceed

Postby Lyn » March 13th, 2012, 10:38 pm

I don't think assisted suicide is much ado about nothing. It is very serious. I sincerely hope no law is passed to allow it because I can see the floodgates opening if that happens. Doesn't mean I don't have compassion for those who have no quality of life (we are not all made of the stuff of Stephen Hawking), or those who care for them - but the law is usually compassionate to anyone who has reached the end of their tether and administered a higher dose than prescribed. There it should rest, that's my opinion anyway.
I do have some experience of this with my in laws, both of whom I cared for towards the end, especially my mother in law. I will not forget her, when she became completely bed ridden, saying to me one night, "I'm never going to die!" with such an anguished look in her eyes. I just looked back at her and she saw in my eyes that she would die soon - which she did, thank God, but it had been a long hard road. Not that many years ago either, I remember I used to talk about her on here or Sparrows. She died December 2004. Though it was a blessed release when she passed, the memory of what she went through, especially the last year, stays with me and John. Yet she showed great courage during that time and right up until she was bed bound she was still trying to do little things. Her world got smaller and she made the very most of what little she had left, while she could. Visitors from her church, the curate coming every four weeks to give her communion, were of great comfort to her as we as seeing us and David. David made her laugh - he was early 20s then and lived in a flat around the corner, came round one day to borrow some plates. She told me, "He must be having a lot of people round for dinner". The truth was, he hadn't done any washing up for ages. The dishwasher was broken but the place was in such a state he didn't want the landlady to come in and see it. Boys!!!! He was kind though. John and I were her main carers especially towards the end when we took it in turns to stay the night. I cooked and shopped for her every day and she liked her food. I never minded helping her with personal things, toilet etc, and washed her clothes and bedclothes every day. She also had other carers coming in four times a day as well as the doctor. It took its toll of her and all of us though.
Not to be compared to the poor man, Mr Nicklinson, with locked in syndrome. I really feel for him and all I can do is pray that it will not be long until he is no longer with us.
Not enough is done for the chronic sick and terminally ill patients here. We have to fight for it.
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Re: Right to die case can proceed

Postby Sprocket » March 14th, 2012, 9:21 am

Sarniajoy wrote:
Victoria Plum wrote:Again, there is a difference between easing people out of this world and deliberately killing them.


Oh come on what is the real difference?

A huge difference. I'm all for assisted suicide, but full euthanasia, even if fully voluntary, is a rather dangerous step. I think that the courts should be very lenient towards people who do kill someone to end their suffering, if they're satisfied that it was what the victim wanted and was done genuinely out of compassion and no other motive, but legalising it is a dangerous step. Assisted suicide is another matter: that should be legalised, and I have to say that I can't see why the chap mentioned in the OP can't use it: I've seen him in a news report, and he has some head movement, and can eat conventionally, so it should be possible for an intravenous drip containing a lethal drug to be set up, which he then starts with a switch in his mouth. Consequently, I have a feeling that this case has more to do with euthanasia activists trying to get full euthanasia legalised, or at least to get publicity for their cause, than about the needs of this chap.
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Re: Right to die case can proceed

Postby Sprocket » March 14th, 2012, 9:24 am

Pondero wrote:
Victoria Plum wrote:Yes in a way but it was you who mentioned same sex marriage first Pondy, and political parties. Neither same sex marriage nor assisted suicide have anything to do with party politics. There are people of all parties believe in both - but let's leave same sex marriage to one side for now (you are right, we don't have it here - yet).


In Canada it has a lot to do with party politics. Anyway, give it a rest, it is much ado about nothing.

Well, why mention it in the first place, then? Assisted suicide and euthanasia are two closely related, but distinct, issues; gay marriage is a completely distinct issue which has nothing to do with it at all. You always try to drag in lots of other issues into discusasions like this in order to try to tar all liberal (i.e. compassionate) opinions with the same brush. Just stop it.
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Re: Right to die case can proceed

Postby Pondero » March 14th, 2012, 9:51 am

Getting off topic is sometimes tolerated and sometimes not.
Before considering legislation to allow euthanasia, one should consider the abominable situation in Holland today. Look it up!
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Re: Right to die case can proceed

Postby Sprocket » March 14th, 2012, 10:04 am

I've already confessed to misgivings about euthanasia. I'm only in favour of assisted suicide, which is different.
I haven't time to look up the Netherlands situation right now, but I suspect it's only abominable if you've decided in advance that euthanasia and A. S. are always wrong.
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Re: Right to die case can proceed

Postby Pondero » March 14th, 2012, 10:18 am

Yes, I know you are working for a living Sprocket and must be on a coffee break, but when you do have the time, explain to me the difference between assisted suicide and euthanasia.
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Re: Right to die case can proceed

Postby Lyn » March 14th, 2012, 10:26 am

I am not Sprocket but I think assisted suicide is when a person with all their faculties decides to die but needs a bit of help to do so. Euthanasia is putting someone down because others think it is the right thing to do.
Interesting discussion on Premier Debate Forum atm about infanticide which is, of course, euthanasia of new born babies.
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Re: Right to die case can proceed

Postby Val » March 14th, 2012, 11:15 am

Pondero wrote:Yes, I know you are working for a living Sprocket and must be on a coffee break, but when you do have the time, explain to me the difference between assisted suicide and euthanasia.



Like Vix said "assisted suicide" is when a person takes their own life, they must be capable of taking a medication or flicking a switch that starts the process, the assistant just provides the means; "euthanasia" is where a doctor or an appointed person carries out the process, it is very different.
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”
John Stuart Mill

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
Edmund Burke
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