Tobacco displays banned in England

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Re: Tobacco displays banned in England

Postby Pondero » April 12th, 2012, 1:36 am

The latest news today is that our Premier of Ontario, Mr.McGuinty, is going to introduce free drug injection sites for heroin addicts in Toronto. They already do this in Vancouver where there is a terrible drug problem.
I think the idea is ridiculous, as you are encouraging drug addicts to remain in their terrible addiction instead of helping them be free of it by trying to get them to go to a treatment Centre.
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Re: Tobacco displays banned in England

Postby Lyn » April 12th, 2012, 8:22 am

I'm not so sure about that Pondy. There is a bit more control - and help available - if a drug addict is registered and has somewhere legal to get their drugs. It limits the drug barons too. There are many people making a fortune out of other people's habits and the drug world is unbelievably violent.
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Re: Tobacco displays banned in England

Postby Pondero » April 12th, 2012, 9:18 pm

It makes life easier for the drug addict, a place to shoot up with heroin, a safe place free from prosecution ( an exemption from criminal law is required for each site) but, it does not supply him with free drugs.He still has to steal to get heroin. By washing needles in javex or some similar bleach he cleans the needle making it usable for someone else instead of throwing the used needle in an alleyway in downtown Toronto. ( I once saw such needles on the ground there). And so it prevents the spread of disease such as HIV (from blood in someone else's body).

However, if the 3 proposed sites are opened in Toronto, addicts will congregate there, much to the consternation of the neighbours. People here in Ontario do not welcome the result even if the Commission does thinks that it is a good idea.(based on studies over four years made in Vancouver etc ).
The one thing both the Commission and your average guy here are agreed on is that it doesn't help the addict get over his addiction, but makes it easier for him to shoot up.
No drug addict wants his addiction to continue but he is too weak to free himself of it on his own. I tbink there should be forced treatment in centres for addicts as they are not in full possession of their senses.
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Re: Tobacco displays banned in England

Postby Lyn » April 12th, 2012, 9:47 pm

It is possible here to be a registered drug addict, to receive prescribed medication and needles and appropriate help. There's not enough help though and a lot of GPs don't want addicts on their panel so the people who make money selling illegally grow richer.
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Re: Tobacco displays banned in England

Postby Pondero » April 12th, 2012, 11:08 pm

Victoria Plum wrote:It is possible here to be a registered drug addict, to receive prescribed medication and needles and appropriate help. There's not enough help though and a lot of GPs don't want addicts on their panel so the people who make money selling illegally grow richer.

You mean methadone treatment? If so,
we have that here too.
The problem is that unless persuaded by someone or some higher-power (see Sweet Peace's comment about prayer and a woman who did achieve success this way in Hong Kong) the drug addicts are going to remain drug addicts.
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Re: Tobacco displays banned in England

Postby Sweet Peace » April 13th, 2012, 12:20 am

Sydney has had a safe injecting room for several years. It has helped enormously in curtailing the spread of Hepatitis C. There were concerns from neighbouring premises but it appears all is well. The project was set up by the Uniting Church, IIRR.
Where sin abounded, grace did much more abound.
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Re: Tobacco displays banned in England

Postby Pondero » April 13th, 2012, 10:15 am

Sweet Peace wrote:Sydney has had a safe injecting room for several years. It has helped enormously in curtailing the spread of Hepatitis C. There were concerns from neighbouring premises but it appears all is well. The project was set up by the Uniting Church, IIRR.

But, it only encourages the addict in his/her addiction and they still have to steal or prostitute themselves to obtain drugs.
And it does nothing to free themselves from this habit.
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Re: Tobacco displays banned in England

Postby Lyn » April 13th, 2012, 10:55 am

I don't think it does encourage because they will do it anyway, it just provides somewhere to keep the rest of the population free from risk - like walking on a contaminated needle.
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Re: Tobacco displays banned in England

Postby Pondero » April 13th, 2012, 12:46 pm

Victoria Plum wrote:I don't think it does encourage because they will do it anyway, it just provides somewhere to keep the rest of the population free from risk - like walking on a contaminated needle.

Your mean there is no hope for them to be free of their addiction?
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Re: Tobacco displays banned in England

Postby Lyn » April 13th, 2012, 1:40 pm

No I don't mean that at all but a person has to want to be free from addiction for a programme to be successful, they have to come to that decision themselves and there are people who have successfully beaten addiction. However it is a long road and most addicts are vulnerable and weak because of various circumstances (I don't mean "weak" in a derogatory way, everyone has weaknesses), some get clean and then backslide. It is the same with alcoholism, in fact alcoholism treatment is said to have a greater failure rate than drug addiction, but though alcoholics can and do wreak havoc, they are able to buy alcohol legally and will not leave contaminated needles around for others to fall on. Neither are they at the mercy of alcohol barons.

One of the problems is that there are not enough centres for drug addicts to receive help. Also many GPs don't like having addicts on their panel and do not have the expertise, or inclination, to help. It is a complicated business having a registered drug addict on your books if you are a GP, GPs are not only allowed to prescribe Methadone and needles but they can prescribe Heroin to registered addicts while the patient waits to get onto a programme. The problem is, the GP is quite vulnerable and can get into trouble if they prescribe too much or too often, or to too many patients, even if in their judgement it is the only way to keep patients from committing crime. There was a well publicised case in the 1990s about a GP in the Grays Inn Road area of London (long since retired, she was near retirement when it happened), who was suspended for a while because of this. She was reinstated, she was very good and caring, doing her best, but you can see there are grey areas that a lot of doctors wouldn't want to get into.

The mental health services in this country are stretched. Drug abuse is a highly specialist area within that specialty and it is in the nature of such clinics that they do not have sufficient funds, staff or access to facilities, plus the non compliance of the patients at various times. If a patient is well off they can afford to go to a residential clinic, receive therapy and be weaned off drugs in comfort and privacy. Even they will backslide but they can afford to do it all over again and there is a higher success rate, plus the fact that these people will generally be in better physical health because they can afford decent food etc. Unfortunately the NHS doesn't run to this. So in the meantime, measures have to be put in place to look after the majority of the general public.

Crack cocaine is a bigger problem than heroin abuse in many ways. For one thing it is unbelievably expensive, it is also something that a person will crave once they've had it so users turn to crime to fund the habit - they can spend £500 or more in one day. They are usually young and end up in prison where they do have to stop (most amateurish burglaries are committed by youngsters hoping to find cash to buy crack, or jewellery to pawn). They will often leave prison with the intention of never using it again but they go back to the same environment and face the same problems they had before and find themselves back in gaol again. It is a sad business.
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