Tobacco displays banned in England

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Re: Tobacco displays banned in England

Postby Lyn » April 8th, 2012, 5:18 pm

Sprocket, may I join you in a pipe? We could perhaps find something peaceful to put in it and listen to Tangerine Dream afterwards.
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Re: Tobacco displays banned in England

Postby Pondero » April 9th, 2012, 2:27 am

I agree SweetPeace that some of us have been incredibly rude, without reason. But, that should not stop anyone from returning to the board, as I believe that we have all learned something from the experience, and speaking for myself, I will try to do better in future. I cannot speak for others, but I would guess that they are going to modify their behaviour too, and make this a kinder gentler place where we can express our views freely and at the same time feel comfortable in doing so.
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Re: Tobacco displays banned in England

Postby Sprocket » April 9th, 2012, 7:08 am

By all means, Vix - good idea!
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Re: Tobacco displays banned in England

Postby Lyn » April 9th, 2012, 10:01 am

Thanks! We could also watch the Magic Roundabout, fall about giggling, etc.

I don't think anyone has been particularly rude on this thread, we all know eachother after all and often bluster a bit, the next day all is back to normal.
Smoking has become an emotive subject and sometimes leads to hysteria but no-one here has objected to a ban on tobacco displays and all agree that there should be no smoking in public places - particularly enclosed places or around children.

(I found it amusing when I went to France and Belgium last year and saw practically every other person smoking! I haven't seen that in England for donkey's years (I take Liz's point that it probably does happen in poor areas). In both the hotels there were no smoking signs all over the place but the hotel rooms were provided with ash trays, one in the room and one in the bathroom.)
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Re: Tobacco displays banned in England

Postby Sprocket » April 9th, 2012, 10:17 am

Victoria Plum wrote:Smoking has become an emotive subject and sometimes leads to hysteria but no-one here has objected to a ban on tobacco displays and all agree that there should be no smoking in public places - particularly enclosed places or around children.

Er - well, actually, no. I don't mind a ban on tobacco product advertising, though I don't think it was altogether necessary for pipe tobacco and cigars, which are not nearly as harmful as cigarettes, but I think the new ban on displaying tobacco products in shops is silly and petty, and could be counter-productive as far as young people are concerned: we all know how counter-suggestible adolescents are, and if you drive something underground (or under the counter, in this case), you make it more attractive to them.
I don't object either to smoking being banned in enclosed public places in general, but a blanket ban is going too far. There should have been an exception for private membership clubs and tobacconists shops (i.e. ones dedicated to selling tobacco products and nothing else, not ordinary newsagents), and while there should be a presumption that pubs, cafes etc. are smoke-free, it could have been possible for individual pub landlords and cafe owners to apply for a smoking licence. The outside shelters erected by many pubs have to have at least one side open in order to comply with the law, or they become a public enclosed space, and that too is not only petty but environmentally disastrous: they need to be heated in winter, and the heat goes straight out through the open side, so that the heater is always on. Since the shelters are solely for smoking in and nothing else (well, apart from drinking), they should be allowed to be fully enclosed. They are, after all, completely separate, stand-alone buildings which don't communicate with the body of the pub.
As for smoking near kids: it's irresponsible and shouldn't happen, but banning it by law is a bit much.

Am I to infer from your second comment that by "something peaceful" you meant a - shall we say - non-tobacco product?
Last edited by Sprocket on April 9th, 2012, 10:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Tobacco displays banned in England

Postby Pondero » April 9th, 2012, 10:24 am

Victoria Plum wrote:Thanks! We could also watch the Magic Roundabout, fall about giggling, etc.

I don't think anyone has been particularly rude on this thread, we all know eachother after all and often bluster a bit, the next day all is back to normal.
Smoking has become an emotive subject and sometimes leads to hysteria but no-one here has objected to a ban on tobacco displays and all agree that there should be no smoking in public places - particularly enclosed places or around children.

(I found it amusing when I went to France and Belgium last year and saw practically every other person smoking! I haven't seen that in England for donkey's years (I take Liz's point that it probably does happen in poor areas). In both the hotels there were no smoking signs all over the place but the hotel rooms were provided with ash trays, one in the room and one in the bathroom.)


Well, I have to disagree here with you VP, but some of us have been insensitive clods. I am taking part of the blame for that too.
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Re: Tobacco displays banned in England

Postby Lyn » April 9th, 2012, 12:16 pm

Yes, insensitive rather than downright rude but we are all insensitive on here sometimes. Yet we keep on posting! So I think we are a fairly healthy community, albeit small.

Sprocks, I was thinking of aromatherapy - what else?
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Re: Tobacco displays banned in England

Postby Sweet Peace » April 11th, 2012, 1:04 am

Reading this article reminded me of what Patjoseph said about tobacco addicts needing understanding, not condemnation.
Opinion piece
Whilst I wouldn't entirely agree that
A person who is addicted to drugs is suffering from an illness in the same way as a person living with depression or schizophrenia,
I do agree that criminalising addiction is not the answer. Trouble is, I've seen first-hand the sad effects of them and if drugs were freely available there'd be many more lives ruined by them. There's no easy answer.
Where sin abounded, grace did much more abound.
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Re: Tobacco displays banned in England

Postby Pondero » April 11th, 2012, 2:20 pm

I would like to point something out that has been overlooked here. I fitst heard of it when I was about 20 years old from a priest in England. It concerns personal responsibility for one's actions. The priest was discussing alcoholism from the pulpit but his comments apply equally to drug addiction. In the case of alcoholism there is personal responsibility for having the drink in the first place and continuing with it afterwards and denying that one has a problem drinking. It is at some later point that it later becomes an addiction. Up to that point, whatever it is - is the responsibility of the person himself. After that point when it becomes an addiction, he cannot help it and it becomes an illness.
You cannot eliminate personal responsibility from the equation.
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Re: Tobacco displays banned in England

Postby Sweet Peace » April 12th, 2012, 1:18 am

Blaming doesn't get us far, but it's too neat a cop-out to say that someone's drug addiction is completely the same as if they had schizophrenia - for one thing that attitude reduces their capacity for overcoming it. I used to be so hooked on tobacco that I went back to it even after having an operation to remove one third of my lung, yet when I became a Christian, I stopped cold turkey from tobacco and marijuana the same week - with barely a whimper. I guess it's worth remembering too the experiences of Jackie Pullinger in Hong Kong where heroin addicts were helped through withdrawal without side effects, through prayer and speaking in tongues and the presence of the Holy Spirit.
Where sin abounded, grace did much more abound.
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