Cogito ergo sum

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A place for serious discussion on any non-religious topic

Cogito ergo sum

Postby Pondero » July 8th, 2012, 12:26 pm

What exactly did Descartes mean when he uttered those immortal Latin words, Cogito ergo sum. Did he mean that if he didn't think he wouldn't exist? Because if he did then that is obviously not true as he existed whether he thought he did or not. It is more likely is it not that he meant that thinking enabled him to recognize his own existence.
I believe that I have hit on the truth when I change the English meaning to I am, therefore I think . It is plain common sense, that you have "to be" to exist before you can think.

I realize that there are deeper meanings implied in the immortal words that I haven't dealt with, such as the separation of mind and body, or spirit and body, and the point of connection, if there is a connection between them. Surely, to isolate the brain's functions into parts and say that the so and so part of the brain is the point of intersection of mind and body, or spirit and body is foolish, it explains nothing. Let us say that one doesn't cause the other, the body doesn't cause the mind, or the mind the body at the point of intersection, as such is obviously true. Mind and body are as they say , mutually exclusive.

What do you think?
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Re: Cogito ergo sum

Postby Serenjen » July 8th, 2012, 9:02 pm

Well, we'll never really know what he actually meant, but I don't think he intended it the other way around "I am, therefore I think" because he concludes in his passage: “I am, I exist"

I think he was trying to explain his beliefs about the world: "I have convinced myself that there is nothing in the world — no sky, no earth, no minds, no bodies. Doesn’t it follow that I don’t exist?"

"No, surely I must exist if it’s me who is convinced of something. But there is a deceiver, supremely powerful and cunning whose aim is to see that I am always deceived. But surely I exist, if I am deceived"

So he's saying, even if he doubts everything about the world, he still exists because he is thinking about it not existing. So, just by thinking means he exists and he proves he's thinking just by thinking about thinking things/he don't exist.

<goes for a lie down>
It’s real easy to say you’re 100% against abortion when you’ll never have to make that decision.
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Re: Cogito ergo sum

Postby Lyn » July 8th, 2012, 9:45 pm

You are sounding a bit like me Greg so it is not surprising you need to go for a lie down :D .
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Re: Cogito ergo sum

Postby Pondero » July 8th, 2012, 9:57 pm

Descartes believed that the intersection of the mind and body (extensions) was in the pineal gland and thought it was a mystery.
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Re: Cogito ergo sum

Postby different glory » July 9th, 2012, 2:15 am

You are sounding a bit like me Greg


If Victoria Plum thinks Serenjen is Greg, does this mean Serenjen is Greg?
That I may publish with the voice of thanksgiving, and tell of all thy wondrous works. - Psalm 26
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Re: Cogito ergo sum

Postby GregB » July 9th, 2012, 7:24 am

different glory wrote:
You are sounding a bit like me Greg


If Victoria Plum thinks Serenjen is Greg, does this mean Serenjen is Greg?

:D

Or, to put it another way:
"Vix thinks I am Serenjen, therefore I exist."

(Also goes for a lie down...after a look in the mirror. :blink: )
"I hate reality but it's still the best place to get a good steak."
- Woody Allen
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Re: Cogito ergo sum

Postby Pondero » July 9th, 2012, 10:08 am

:grin: I think I'll go back to bed, the deep thought is too much this morning, perhaps another coffee ...
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Re: Cogito ergo sum

Postby Lyn » July 9th, 2012, 11:31 am

I've just come back from having my hair cut and, after reading this, I definitely need a lie down.
"I drink therefore I am", might be appropriate but I hadn't had anything to drink (must have been the picture of the shoes.......).
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Re: Cogito ergo sum

Postby Sprocket » July 9th, 2012, 12:26 pm

Jen - we know perfectly well what Descartes meant, but Pondy wilfully refuses to see it. I'm buggered if I'm explaining it yet again.
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Re: Cogito ergo sum

Postby Pondero » July 9th, 2012, 1:59 pm

Sprocket wrote:Jen - we know perfectly well what Descartes meant, but Pondy wilfully refuses to see it. I'm buggered if I'm explaining it yet again.

You talk gibberish Sprocket as I don't deny what Serenjen says that "I am,I exist" .To make it crystal clear Serenjen quotes Descartes. But, it's also true that that statement equals my statement, a reverse of cogico ergo sum, "I am, therefore I think".
You can't think before you exist.
Descartes according to the quote by Serenjen, realized this.
Last edited by Pondero on July 9th, 2012, 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Location: Etobicoke,Ontario, Canada

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