Israeli Apartheid

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A place for serious discussion on any non-religious topic

Israeli Apartheid

Postby Val » October 26th, 2012, 5:56 pm

In answer to Greg on another thread.

If you must be pedantic then why not call it what it really is ‘Israeli Apartheid’ or what would you call the resolute policy of the demolition of Palestinian homes the building of a separation wall 700 kilometres long (when completed) built to annex Palestinian lands and cause as much discomfort as possible to Palestinians, the building of motorways through Palestinian farm lands and villages destroying crops, homes and communities, roads which only Israelis can travel on causing great hardship to Palestinians whose lives are disrupted by unnecessary detours, checkpoints and road closures, the fencing off the Gaza Strip which has become a prison for 1.7 million people, Israel still refuses to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza in the form of foods stuffs, building materials and medicines and even toys. Top all that off with the daily confiscation of Palestinian lands plus the destruction of farmlands to build Israeli settlements and roadways, the destruction of wells and waterways used by generations of Palestinians, the above plus much more, Israel seems bent on erasing the very identity of Palestine and replacing it with a Jewish state where Palestinians become second class citizens with little or no rights, that is Apartheid in any language
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Re: Israeli Apartheid

Postby GregB » October 26th, 2012, 7:14 pm

Sorry, Val, no deal. I don't have the slightest intention of being drawn into a yet another futile discussion over this. And - as Steve might quote from Dr. Johnson - there's an end on't.
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Re: Israeli Apartheid

Postby Sprocket » October 26th, 2012, 9:40 pm

I'm with Val about Israel, but with Greg about getting involved in another discussion of it. Sorry, Val - I know you were responding to a post of mine on the other thread, but I should've known better than to make it, because we've all said all there is to be said on the issue before.
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Re: Israeli Apartheid

Postby Pondero » October 27th, 2012, 9:50 am

When you look at a map of the Middle East you see how large is the area of the Arab states and how small is Israel in comparison.There is lots of room for non-jews to live in the area,but the current state of perpetual warfare is maintained by the Muslim leaders in neighboring states.The Hamas rockets are fired from the Gaza Strip at Jews not the other way around.
Look at this way the Jews carved out a nation for themselves out of a wilderness, as they did 3,000 years ago and they could justifiably prevent all non-jews from living in Israel.They don't do it.
The reverse is not true, these Arab countries long ago expelled all jews from their land.
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Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

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Re: Israeli Apartheid

Postby Val » October 28th, 2012, 12:05 pm

Pondero wrote:When you look at a map of the Middle East you see how large is the area of the Arab states and how small is Israel in comparison.There is lots of room for non-jews to live in the area,but the current state of perpetual warfare is maintained by the Muslim leaders in neighboring states.The Hamas rockets are fired from the Gaza Strip at Jews not the other way around.
Look at this way the Jews carved out a nation for themselves out of a wilderness, as they did 3,000 years ago and they could justifiably prevent all non-jews from living in Israel.They don't do it.
The reverse is not true, these Arab countries long ago expelled all jews from their land.


The problem is that the Wilderness as you call it didn’t belong to them it was stolen from its rightful owners and planted by foreigners culturally unsuitable to the area
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”
John Stuart Mill

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
Edmund Burke
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Re: Israeli Apartheid

Postby Sprocket » October 28th, 2012, 2:08 pm

Pondero wrote:When you look at a map of the Middle East you see how large is the area of the Arab states and how small is Israel in comparison.There is lots of room for non-jews to live in the area,but the current state of perpetual warfare is maintained by the Muslim leaders in neighboring states.The Hamas rockets are fired from the Gaza Strip at Jews not the other way around.
Look at this way the Jews carved out a nation for themselves out of a wilderness, as they did 3,000 years ago and they could justifiably prevent all non-jews from living in Israel.They don't do it.
The reverse is not true, these Arab countries long ago expelled all jews from their land.

Try substituting "Africa" for 'Middle East", "Black African States" for "Arab States", "South Africa" for "Israel", and "Boers" for "Jews" in the above, and you soon see how pernicious this line of argument is.
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Re: Israeli Apartheid

Postby GregB » October 28th, 2012, 2:25 pm

I know it's tempting to jump in here, Steve (there are many things I could say in response to Val's wholly one-sided agitprop bluster), but I thought we'd agreed to steer clear of this old warhorse of an argument. Shall we honourably stick by that and just stay out of it now after your unwarranted intervention? What do you think?

[I don't think the fact that you were responding to Pondero, not Val, makes any difference. Either we're in the discussion or we're not.]
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Re: Israeli Apartheid

Postby Sprocket » October 28th, 2012, 3:51 pm

Yes, I know - I weakly yielded to temptation. Forgive me, Father Greg, for I have sinned. OK, schtum from now on.
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Re: Israeli Apartheid

Postby GregB » October 28th, 2012, 4:10 pm

Well, that's probably better than weekly yielding to temptation, which could have dire consequences over the year. All right, you're forgiven, but only as long as a consignment of Glenfiddich turns up soon on the front steps of the manse (er, on second thoughts, better make that at the back door after evensong.)
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Re: Israeli Apartheid

Postby Pondero » October 28th, 2012, 11:05 pm

I think my line of argument is valid and that the comparison with the situation in Africa is not justified.As for the country being stolen... Oh well, how far back in time do we go to find out who stole what from who?
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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