In My Defence

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A place for serious discussion on any non-religious topic

In My Defence

Postby GregB » March 13th, 2016, 6:38 pm

I've moved the post I put in responding to this post by different glory on the Only In Canada thread in In Depth following the dispute between myself and Lyn. [I've started this thread now given Pondero's negative reaction to my post on the original thread. The other preceding posts relating to this dispute can be found there.]

DG wrote:
Oh. :( This is a sad thing to find,when I try to read to catch upon what's been happening.

Lyn, you would be very sadly missed; I hope very much indeed that your break is a short one.

Greg, your words have indeed caused some Thaddeans pain, to the extent that they have considered leaving - I am one. Your abusiveness is part of the reason I have pulled back from posting in most sections - only part, but definitely a contributory factor. I am sorry if hearing this causes you distress, but I am trying to speak the truth as a comrade.

And here is my reply to that (a bit long, but please bear with me):

"I must insist, DG, on denying that I have been "abusive" to anyone here. I may have spoken sharply during some discussions of a more controversial nature (and heaven knows, who hasn't? I'm not the only one by a long chalk!), but I have never resorted to personal attacks or offensive slights and I challenge anyone to find or recall any examples. You say you have considered leaving, too, in which case perhaps you might provide some concrete examples of how I have contributed to that. Quite often threads to which you have contributed and in which I have participated have often been left dangling, not because of any evident friction, but because, as I've always assumed, you're a busy person who doesn't always have time for regular or continuous posting. (On occasion, you've had computer problems, too.) Fair enough.

As I said in an earlier post, I would ask for hard evidence that others have left or felt inclined to leave due to my supposed "abusiveness". You and I have, it seems to me, always enjoyed cordial relations on the forum (with one passing exception a while back, which soon blew over), especially on the Talking Music thread (what's happened to that?) and other Chatterbox threads, and I know you enjoy my contributions to your Good News Stories thread as well as news of Catalan/Spanish politics. I honestly cannot recall our clashing seriously or viciously on any more serious threads (the odd difference of opinion, even strongly expressed, is surely a normal part of vigorous debate, as any MP or member of a university debating society would affirm - or even members of the same family!)

Those who know me appreciate that I have a rather strong sense of irony and sharp sense of humour, though they realise it isn't employed or intended for offensive purposes, but is rather one aspect of my discourse or rhetoric. I would add that there are many occasions when I have posted in a lighthearted and more gently humorous way, but that seems to have been forgotten in the rush to create an identikit portrait of GregB as some kind of curmudgeonly scoundrel!

Look, how did all this start? Admittedly I was exasperated when Lyn didn't seem to grasp what I was getting at earlier in this discussion*, but the sheer vehemence of her reaction took me aback and seemed totally out of proportion, especially as we have, in the main and the odd passing moment of irritation or friction notwithstanding, always got on well here and I have always been supportive in her more difficult moments. It came as a shock, then, to discover her real feelings about me.

Your post hasn't really caused me any distress, DG, just sadness at this latest turn of events in this regrettable business. (To be frank, though, I do think you might have put your comments in a PM rather than on the thread; I really do think that might have been more charitable.) Now, my name has taken on a further shade of black (if black has shades!) And sorry to be so long winded but I do feel I should defend myself, if necessary at length; I am not the ogre I have been depicted as. (I cited one 'witness for the defence' yesterday in the person of Bev, with whom I have always enjoyed a warm friendship. It's heartening to know that at least one person would be rooting for me.)

[* I said "You're still not getting it, are you?" Is that really abusive or offensive? Did it merit the subsequent reaction? Wouldn't a flippant, "Oh well, I must be thick, then!" have humorously defused the situation and put me in my place in a less hostile way? Or even a sharp, "Do you think I'm stupid or something?", but not all that harsh obloquy, for heaven's sake! As for the earlier edited comment, I did think better of it and altered it, but who hasn't posted something in the heat of the moment and later relented? Oh, and I deny Lyn's accusation that this is something I regularly do. Look, I'm not a cover-up artist with my own faults but I do ask for fairness - even fair dinkumness (can I be permitted a smiley here?) :D ]
"To be ignorant of what occurred before you were born is to remain always a child."
- Cicero
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Re: In My Defence

Postby GregB » March 18th, 2016, 5:00 pm

I see there has been no response to the above. Oh well. Even so, if no one has exactly leapt to my defence, at least no one else has pulled out knives from beneath their togas (and we've passed the ides of March, anyway!) Still and all, I will have a few things to say further down the line but I just want to take a little time now to address a specific issue in this regrettable and totally unnecessary clash between people who have basically got along well for years on this and earlier forums.

I've been accused of causing people to desert the forum because of my supposed abusive posting, even though the evidence for that is slim, to say the least, and the great majority of my posts have been of a positive nature in exchanges with other posters. However, my point here is that forums like this one are going downhill anyway regardless of any would be personal factors. Just look at the number of members here - 304 - which hasn't altered in a long time now. Why? (And don't bore me with some allegation that people are avoiding St.Thad's because of the presence of that dastardly curmudgeon, GregB. There are millions upon millions of people out there who have never heard of St. Thad's or GregB!) It's surely because chat forums of this more general nature, the Christian orientation of this one notwithstanding, are in steep decline. People now exchange views and ideas with each other much more on Facebook, Twitter and other social media, or else they post on forums of specialist interest (such as Sprocket/Steve's pipe-smokers' forum or a classical music forum I'm involved with.)

So, the decline in numbers here and elsewhere is almost certainly due to the general decline in chat forum adherents as well as 'natural wastage' (ie. most people don't stay around for very long anyway, having other things to do - or probably simply having no well expressed opinions anyway, especially over a sustained period of time.) In conclusion, do let's try and grasp the big picture and not stick pins into handy dolls.
"To be ignorant of what occurred before you were born is to remain always a child."
- Cicero
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Re: In My Defence

Postby Pondero » March 18th, 2016, 8:37 pm

One reason why this forum is not as active as it used to be is that regular contributors here know the views of us regulars on most topics already and have lost interest. They didn't contribute themselves much in the first place. They know all there is to know about abortion, euthanasia, evolution, Islam,and global warming or cooling and formed their opinions one way or the other partly from listening to whoever writes on these topics.
We might all draw on our personal experiences of life today.They all differ according to the country we live in. And there is the humourous playful sections of chatterbox which is quite popular with some.( As I have little or no sense of humour I rarely go there :D ) For my contributions which may be just one a day- I will try to make them interesting , not just serious.
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Re: In My Defence

Postby GregB » March 19th, 2016, 8:09 am

Pondero wrote:One reason why this forum is not as active as it used to be is that regular contributors here know the views of us regulars on most topics already and have lost interest. They didn't contribute themselves much in the first place. They know all there is to know about abortion, euthanasia, evolution, Islam,and global warming or cooling and formed their opinions one way or the other partly from listening to whoever writes on these topics.

Well said, Pondero, and spot on, a perfect complement to my own post about forum departures (see above.)

Incidentally, correction to the figure I quoted of the number of St Thad's members. It's 103, not 304 (I don't know why that figure occurred to me.)
"To be ignorant of what occurred before you were born is to remain always a child."
- Cicero
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Re: In My Defence

Postby SwordOfTheSpirit » March 20th, 2016, 12:43 pm

GregB wrote:I see there has been no response to the above. Oh well. Even so, if no one has exactly leapt to my defence, at least no one else has pulled out knives from beneath their togas (and we've passed the ides of March, anyway!) ...

Must admit I was somewhat surprised to see this criticism of you, even having read the relevant posts. Outside of the more light-hearted threads/topics, most of your contributions (if I recall correctly) have been to raise awareness of the increasing advance of Islam.

Not for the first time, I've seen on here how anyone who stands up for any kind of truth occurs the wrath of someone else who seems to claim as a single objective opinion that there is no single objective opinion on a matter. When outargued, the resort is to blame the poster or blame their posting style rather than defend their own position or counter that with which they disagree with reasoning. The latter can be greatly helped if they were appealing to some external source on which to base their views, rather than this increasingly seen liberal stance, which keeps on claiming that the only way to look at things is that there are many ways to look at things; a clear logical contradiction.
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Re: In My Defence

Postby Sprocket » March 20th, 2016, 1:59 pm

It might be a logical contradiction if anyone on here said it, but I don't recall anyone doing so.
Supercrappyfarcicalishbrexitisatrocious.
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Re: In My Defence

Postby different glory » March 26th, 2016, 10:22 pm

and here I am at last! Yes,I've been very busy -a trip back to australia (still going on) in which I've been trying very hard to get to all family and friends, some of whom are in pretty serious situations. Right now I'm back in the small town, where nothing much happens, but time gets sucked away anyway.

Greg - I value much of what you post here! and value the friendship between us, too. I posted openly, rather than in PM, because I thought it was important to be open to the community (since the matter was about how the community functioned, rather than about how you and I deal with each other) that Lyn was not the only one to have found it hard to take your posting style. No, not abusive to me, personally - but you sling off so savagely and derisively about views you don't agree with - it's not discussion,it's dodging word-missiles.
as well, I personally don't enjoy the way you speak of pretty well any public woman mentioned, especially the sneering at her physicality. (an attention not extended to the blokes.)

Hey! I see you're online! Rest assured, I'll put up the examples you asked for. it's pre-church here, and I'm simultaneously making cakes for after church.
That I may publish with the voice of thanksgiving, and tell of all thy wondrous works. - Psalm 26
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Re: In My Defence

Postby GregB » March 26th, 2016, 10:38 pm

No, not abusive to me, personally - but you sling off so savagely and derisively about views you don't agree with - it's not discussion,it's dodging word-missiles.

I see. Of course, I disagree with - let's be frank - such an unwarranted harsh assessment and I would still challenge you to find examples of my "savage" and "derisive" reactions to views I don't agree with, adjectives which are well over the top. I can certainly be blunt in my response to some views expressed, and that only occasionally, but I wouldn't go beyond that description (as at least one person here has expressed it in my favour over this sad, totally unnecessary dispute.)
as well, I personally don't enjoy the way you speak of pretty well any public woman mentioned, especially the sneering at her physicality. (an attention not extended to the blokes.)

I confess I don't have the slightest idea of what you're referring to. Which public woman? Which "sneering at her physicality"? I'm baffled. Come on, spell it out and we can talk about it openly. I'm all for that,

Again, it seems all the positive side of my posting (the great majority of it!) has been sidelined in favour of homing in on the (overblown) negative. Perhaps I might be going 'over the top' myself when I say that this all starts to smack of a witch hunt, but I'm afraid that's how I'm regrettably beginning to see all this.
"To be ignorant of what occurred before you were born is to remain always a child."
- Cicero
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Re: In My Defence

Postby different glory » March 26th, 2016, 10:58 pm

Coming in later, with something written in the gaps of the morning:

Twelve cakes made and iced (but not yet packed).

Well, compare your responses to the deaths of two very well=-known and admired singers:
Cilla: "the ugly, buck toothed cow with her gormless scouse accent."

David Bowie: "the cynical, self-serving, self-glorifying old poser!"

You don't like either of them, but it's the woman whom you describe in terms of her attractiveness. When you dislike a woman,those are the terms you turn to -

More to come! I know there've been some I really reacted against - it was like walking into a cafe, and finding someone talking loudly and abusively about some woman who wasn't there - I would (in such a circumstance) feel like just leaving that cafe and finding a more pleasant place.
That I may publish with the voice of thanksgiving, and tell of all thy wondrous works. - Psalm 26
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Re: In My Defence

Postby different glory » March 26th, 2016, 11:01 pm

and now having read the one you posted while I was writing the last one:

no, not a witch hunt! a genuine attempt to explain what is that I find off-putting. I will post again, in a few hours time (ie after church - which begins in the next town in half an hour - and the cakes still not packed!).
That I may publish with the voice of thanksgiving, and tell of all thy wondrous works. - Psalm 26
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