The British Class System

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A place for serious discussion on any non-religious topic

The British Class System

Postby Pondero » July 14th, 2016, 11:26 am

Does the British Class system still exist. There is an article about it in today's National Post entitled "Meritocracy versus the Brixters " by Terry Glavin. (Who is in London UK).. He quotes from a book by James B!oodsworth, a 33 year old postman turned journalist, entitled The Myth of Meritocracy :Why Working Class Kids StillGet Working Class Jobs

I won't say anymore about it, yet as I have not read the book. Amazon says if I pay about £10 I can have it delivered by July 19th in Canada. (Not when the mail men are locked out over here.) I hope it is in our library.

My Acer Android tablet is acting up more than usual this morning and printing words I did not type.Must be the storm which has knocked out power in most of NW Toronto. Our power will go off at 8 am as scheduled for hydro work on our street. :wave:
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Re: The British Class System

Postby Lyn » July 14th, 2016, 2:45 pm

Pondero wrote:Does the British Class system still exist. There is an article about it in today's National Post entitled "Meritocracy versus the Brixters " by Terry Glavin. (Who is in London UK).. He quotes from a book by James B!oodsworth, a 33 year old postman turned journalist, entitled The Myth of Meritocracy :Why Working Class Kids StillGet Working Class Jobs

I won't say anymore about it, yet as I have not read the book. Amazon says if I pay about £10 I can have it delivered by July 19th in Canada. (Not when the mail men are locked out over here.) I hope it is in our library.

My Acer Android tablet is acting up more than usual this morning and printing words I did not type.Must be the storm which has knocked out power in most of NW Toronto. Our power will go off at 8 am as scheduled for hydro work on our street. :wave:


Interesting Pondy. The EU referendum has brought all sorts of stereotypes out of the woodwork. That is quite evident.

Other than that, I really don't think we can generalise about whether working class kids go on to have working class jobs. A lot depends on what type of working class we are talking about; there have always been divisions between skilled working class, semi-skilled and unskilled. Certainly kids from the skilled w/c background tend to achieve higher than their parents but the parents have invariably been nurturing and encouraging of their offspring - and they are not poor.

There are opportunities for all children to do reasonably well but they have to be self-motivated; parents can do a lot to motivate their kids but some don't bother, often from being demoralised themselves.

I'm no expert though, Pondy. Sprocket may know more than me about this sort of thing, he still work, mixing with a variety of people and has his ear to the ground so is more up to date.

The books sounds quite interesting. I'll see if I can find a synopsis of it. Thanks.

Edit: Not a synopsis of the book but found this by James Bloodsworth, talking about his theories on which the book is based:

http://www.progressonline.org.uk/2013/1 ... lass-jobs/
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Re: The British Class System

Postby Pondero » July 15th, 2016, 7:35 pm

Stopping genereralzations because they may. be incorrect would stop all thinking.You would never arrive at a conclusion . At best a generalization is based on a good sampling of pertinent facts, at worst based on personal subjective experience.Cost accounting and budgetary control are based on a mixture of fact, samples and predictions based on these tbings, Not on things pulled from the air, so to speak. (As found in tax auditing a large case file)
It works well for humans, less well for turkeys who have grown up on a farm being fed daily, they predict they will be fed the next day, (until one day Christmas rolls around and they are killed and cooked). The sun also rises....and we predict it will rise tomorrow.It will in our life time.

Now , it was something you said Lyn in your post which brought all this on.Anyway back to class distinction.
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Re: The British Class System

Postby Lyn » July 15th, 2016, 8:26 pm

Hee hee, I like the probability theories better.
I can't say any more about class, hope someone else does better.
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Re: The British Class System

Postby Pondero » August 7th, 2016, 11:17 am

We have a. Class system here in Canada, but it is subtle, based on your job, not your accent, or birth parents so much.
In the USA, they will look at you and judge you on appearance, knowing nothing about you except that you are not from there.I suppose this "insular" way of judging people is the same in every country.
Back to Britain now.
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
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Re: The British Class System

Postby Serenjen » August 23rd, 2016, 11:07 pm

We still absolutely have a class system based on birth yes.

The differences become more apparent when things start to go wrong. A person from a working class background has less of a safety net to fall back on. They can end up doing jobs to bring a wage in and cannot take a risk on a change of direction.

Here's an example. We had a guy working with us, very posh, very landed family. Went to St. Andrew's, despite that, very lacking in the thinking department. It always seemed like he was slumming it temporarily with us plebs.

Eventually, management could no longer tolerate his clap-trap so he was shown the door...to Harvard. This guy is basically pinballing his way through the British and US government because his mother and father are 'somebodies'. A working class person would have to put at and shut up or risk losing their livelihood.
It’s real easy to say you’re 100% against abortion when you’ll never have to make that decision.
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Re: The British Class System

Postby Lyn » August 24th, 2016, 7:51 am

I understand what you are saying but surely a person from working class background who is educated and capable would simply find another job if they were not satisfied where they were - and probably be welcomed with open arms in a blue chip company.

It's the poorly trained who have to put up and shut up.
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Re: The British Class System

Postby Pondero » August 25th, 2016, 8:54 pm

Lyn wrote:I understand what you are saying but surely a person from working class background who is educated and capable would simply find another job if they were not satisfied where they were - and probably be welcomed with open arms in a blue chip company.

It's the poorly trained who have to put up and shut up.


The poorly trained we will always have with us.The problem with blue chip companies these days is you have no p
Lension at the end of it. The best jobs are in politics, our Mr.Harper who was PM until last year gets a pension of $127,000 *and all politicians who have a certain number in as MPs, I think it is either eight or eleven for a lifetime pension that most people in the civil service cannot get. Civil servants and mailmen get 2% times number of years service times the average of their best five or six years salary or wage to a maximum of 35 years and an age of at least 55 before retirement.
The other best is a university or hospital job with pension. Even the TTC (Toronto Transit Commission) pays a pension to their working men and women. Teachers also get a pension.
Blue chip companies give you nothing these days. They did so in the past before the competitive race to the bottom.

* Pension figures quoted or calculated are annual pensions of which one twelfth is paid every calendar month until death.
Last edited by Pondero on August 26th, 2016, 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.

— St. Teresa, The bookmark of Teresa of Ávila, [28]
User avatar
Pondero
 
Posts: 12752
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:03 am
Location: Etobicoke,Ontario, Canada

Re: The British Class System

Postby Lyn » August 26th, 2016, 12:14 am

Most places here have a works pension scheme for permanent staff but there's nothing to stop someone taking out a private pension plan Pondy, plenty do, some in addition to a works pension. Not quite sure what pensions have to do with the British class system.
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