Climate change again.

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A place for serious discussion on any non-religious topic

Climate change again.

Postby Sprocket » July 7th, 2017, 6:58 am

If you want to argue with this, please do so with facts and figures, not rhetoric. See my new signature.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... m-politics
Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason.
Sir John Harington (1561-1620)
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Re: Climate change again.

Postby Pondero » July 7th, 2017, 10:36 am

Sprocket wrote:If you want to argue with this, please do so with facts and figures, not rhetoric. See my new signature.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... m-politics


The following statement is itself a journalistic opinion piece.


Climate science has become a red rag to the political right. The scientific consensus is clear: more than 95% of climate researchers agree that human activity is causing global warming, and that without action to combat it we are on a path to dangerous temperature rises from pre-industrial levels.
We live at a time ...characterized by a subliminal relativism that penetrates every area of life. Sometimes this relativism becomes aggressive, when it opposes those who say that they know where the truth or meaning of life is to be found. Benedict XV1.
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Re: Climate change again.

Postby gone » July 7th, 2017, 10:42 am

Sprocket wrote:If you want to argue with this, please do so with facts and figures, not rhetoric. See my new signature.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... m-politics


The climate change deniers are putting the planet in danger. It will be future generations who will suffer if we don't do our best to control it whilst we still can. That cretin Trump wont be around to see the result of his stupidity. :twisted:
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Re: Climate change again.

Postby Lyn » July 7th, 2017, 10:50 am

Exactly what I was thinking, Sarniajay! It won't affect him, his children, his grandchildren, any differences will be subtle - he can't think beyond that.

Yet I doubt Trump really thinks about climate change at all, he's not a deep thinker. It all comes from his 'advisers'.
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Re: Climate change again.

Postby Pondero » July 7th, 2017, 10:59 am

The climate change deniers who are not involved in the oil business are using their heads and are not swayed by emotionalism .
They honestly deny based on the facts they can find that global warming is not a man made threat to the future of our planet.
Use your head,study the data , and show deniers some respect.
Remember ,perhaps 95% of Germans thought Hitler was right too to declare war ! But, was Hitler right?
We live at a time ...characterized by a subliminal relativism that penetrates every area of life. Sometimes this relativism becomes aggressive, when it opposes those who say that they know where the truth or meaning of life is to be found. Benedict XV1.
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Re: Climate change again.

Postby gone » July 7th, 2017, 11:19 am

Pondero wrote:The climate change deniers who are not involved in the oil business are using their heads and are not swayed by emotionalism .
They honestly deny based on the facts they can find that global warming is not a man made threat to the future of our planet.
Use your head,study the data , and show deniers some respect.
Remember ,perhaps 95% of Germans thought Hitler was right too to declare war ! But, was Hitler right?


I have no respect for those damaging our planet! :twisted:
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Re: Climate change again.

Postby Sprocket » July 7th, 2017, 11:48 am

Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason.
Sir John Harington (1561-1620)
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Re: Climate change again.

Postby Lyn » July 7th, 2017, 12:13 pm

Sorry oh Sprocks.
I am reading all the links you have posted.
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Re: Climate change again.

Postby GregB » July 7th, 2017, 12:38 pm

It's not really a question of facts and figures in this context as much as the politicisation of the issue, which is basically what this intelligent, thoughtful, balanced article is about (the fact of climate change itself is an a priori given here.) Both sides of the debate have committed errors in their handling of it in the public domain, though the sceptics have clearly manipulated it for their own political or economic ends while the defenders of the thesis have erred in their media treatment of it (see the article itself for much more on this.) Amongst other sidelights, I like the way the author of the article gets it right on, for example, the stock criticism of people like Al Gore (basically an arrogant elitist Democrat shit) for flying around in energy-consuming transport (etc.), as if his self-centred sins should discredit the basic problem itself (usual ad hominem stuff.)

As for the future, I think it's important to separate the established facts of the current situation from basically speculative future consequences, which are much more uncertain and often based on dubious computer model projections. As the author of the article himself says:
"There are lots of good reasons to be doubtful about what the reality of climate change will entail: though there is scientific agreement about the fact of global warming and its source in human activity, the ultimate risks are very uncertain and so are the long-term consequences. There is plenty of scope for disagreement about the most effective next steps. The existence of a very strong scientific consensus does not mean there should be a consensus about the correct political response."

Wise words and caution against the kind of basically uninformed alarmist reactions and panic mongering of many people, (not least here!), not to mention the imposition of measures which do not take such factors into account.
"We have more knowledge than those who came before us not because of our greater intelligence and understanding, but because we are dwarves sitting on the shoulders of giants who preceded us."
- Bernard of Chartres
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Re: Climate change again.

Postby Pondero » July 7th, 2017, 2:15 pm

We do not really know whether global warming , based on the facts recently discovered , is going to harm the planet in the future.
Kids are taught in our Canadian schools at primary School level that Global warming is to be condemned without knowing any more details about it.Such propaganda, one way or other is not helpful.
We live at a time ...characterized by a subliminal relativism that penetrates every area of life. Sometimes this relativism becomes aggressive, when it opposes those who say that they know where the truth or meaning of life is to be found. Benedict XV1.
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