Yet another gun massacre in the US

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A place for serious discussion on any non-religious topic

Re: Yet another gun massacre in the US

Postby Pondero » November 6th, 2017, 6:14 pm

Sarniajoy wrote:The Bible isn't any better if the deeds attributed to god were true, is would be an evil psycho if it exists. :twisted:

There is an article by Christopher Akers on the Catholic Thing which may help you understand God and Objective
Morality.
It starts off like this:
There is a rather simple, yet nowadays rarely discussed ,philosophical argument that can help lead assent to the existence of God.It has the potential to change the hearts and minds of those who seriously consider it.
The argument , succinctly, is that for an objective moral system to exist, God must exist. For a moral system to be truly objective, moral law must stem from a source external to humanity . Otherwise, all we have is subjective human moral opinion,
no matter how it is dressed up. The implications of this are particularly fascinating, especially since the vast majority of non-believers live and act as if they believe in an objective moral system, while their own belief system makes this logically impossible.


It goes on. Read the article.
“ignorance of the fact that man has a wounded nature inclined to evil gives rise to serious errors in the areas of education, politics, social action, and morals” (#407).
Catechism of the Catholic Church.
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Re: Yet another gun massacre in the US

Postby Sarniajoy » November 6th, 2017, 6:20 pm

Pondero wrote:
Sarniajoy wrote:The Bible isn't any better if the deeds attributed to god were true, is would be an evil psycho if it exists. :twisted:

There is an article by Christopher Akers on the Catholic Thing which may help you understand God and Objective
Morality.
It starts off like this:
There is a rather simple, yet nowadays rarely discussed ,philosophical argument that can help lead assent to the existence of God.It has the potential to change the hearts and minds of those who seriously consider it.
The argument , succinctly, is that for an objective moral system to exist, God must exist. For a moral system to be truly objective, moral law must stem from a source external to humanity . Otherwise, all we have is subjective human moral opinion,
no matter how it is dressed up. The implications of this are particularly fascinating, especially since the vast majority of non-believers live and act as if they believe in an objective moral system, while their own belief system makes this logically impossible.


It goes on. Read the article.


There is no evidence any god exists, especially the one featured in the Bible, which appears to be a very human creation having all the worst of human characteristics. Of course it is just possible some form of entity could exist somewhere, but I doubt it is in touch with humans.
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Re: Yet another gun massacre in the US

Postby Lyn » November 6th, 2017, 6:23 pm

You don't miss a trick sarnie. Not fair!!! This thread isn't about belief or not in God, it's about gun massacres. I haven't heard the fact that the latest in Texas took place in a church is relevant to the church - he might well have opened fire somewhere else but a church is somewhere there will be many people in one place.

Leave your personal prejudices behind.
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Re: Yet another gun massacre in the US

Postby Pondero » November 6th, 2017, 7:56 pm

The man who murdered 26 people in a Baptist Church and left 20 wounded, ten of them critically was involved in a 'domestic dispute' , and of course he was discharged from the Air Force for beating up his wife and kids, and suffered a year in jail after a court martial. The authorities are trying to find out what type of dishonourable or other discharge it was, as one allows him to own a gun and the other does not.
How you distinguish between an evil act and one caused by mental illness is at the root of explaining why he did it.
“ignorance of the fact that man has a wounded nature inclined to evil gives rise to serious errors in the areas of education, politics, social action, and morals” (#407).
Catechism of the Catholic Church.
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Re: Yet another gun massacre in the US

Postby Sprocket » November 6th, 2017, 10:17 pm

GregB wrote:Oh, come on, what on earth has that got to do with the original matter in hand on the thread (and, again, my earlier post) where one might have hoped for a serious discussion, for heaven's sake?

Nothing, but it's what Sarnie says at every possible opportunity.
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Re: Yet another gun massacre in the US

Postby Val » November 7th, 2017, 6:09 pm

I have to agree with Greg on this one, it is not about gun culture or gun ownership.
Here is a list of countries with violent gun deaths per 100,000 people in 2016
Singapore, Japan, South Korea, China, Oman, United Kingdom, Iceland, Romania, Indonesia, Germany, and then the USA.
The UK has like Germany and Ireland has high rate of gun ownership but these countries make it much more difficult to get firearms licences, I shoot competitively and own a number of firearms from Pistols, Rifles and Shotguns we must show that we are competent, compete regularly and are members of a reputable shooting range, I have taken my firearms to NI, UK and Germany without issue.

To describe as human a creature who could perpetrate this violence against innocent children and worshippers is beyond words or description, he unquestionably was suffering some form of psychotic breakdown; no sane person could do this no matter what access he had to guns.

The matter of USA resident’s casually purchasing semi-automatic firearms at country gun sales without any records being kept or the amount of ammunition bought must be stopped and a proper record of these purchases and amounts of ammunition must be kept.

This murderer was refused a licence to purchase a semi-automatic firearm because of his criminal, violent record but bought this at one of the many sales throughout the county
His act of violence is not terrorism; this was carried out against an innocent community as an act of revenge, unlike Islamic scumbags this piece of shit had no political aims.
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Re: Yet another gun massacre in the US

Postby Lyn » November 7th, 2017, 7:15 pm

This sort of thing happens far too often, including here. Schools often targeted. Dreadful.
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Re: Yet another gun massacre in the US

Postby Pondero » November 8th, 2017, 11:28 am

The murderer was anti-Christian who called Christians stupid on Facebook.This fact is rarely mentioned in discussing his motives.
The Daily Mail reported that Kelley, was an atheist who hated Christians.
“ignorance of the fact that man has a wounded nature inclined to evil gives rise to serious errors in the areas of education, politics, social action, and morals” (#407).
Catechism of the Catholic Church.
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Re: Yet another gun massacre in the US

Postby Val » November 8th, 2017, 3:18 pm

Pondero wrote:The murderer was anti-Christian who called Christians stupid on Facebook.This fact is rarely mentioned in discussing his motives.
The Daily Mail reported that Kelley, was an atheist who hated Christians.



I think you will find if you read the reports again that the scumbag was not just anti Christian he hated all religion, but
Whether he was an atheist is doubtful and of no importance, the world is full of atheists, who are doctors, lawyers, teachers, judges etc you name it they are there; and in the most part are honest hard-working individuals who love their families just like normal thinking people.
Atheism is not a belief system it is just that atheists do not accept the available evidence that a God or any supernatural entity exists.
You will never hear atheists criticising Christianity, Muslim or any other faith system, we might however get annoyed about the dealings of certain denominations such as Christianity or Islam etc.

Do not believe everything you read on Facebook as according to some of the reports I read; most of his contemporaries knew he was a head case but didn't feel it necessary to report him to the authorities
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Re: Yet another gun massacre in the US

Postby Pondero » November 8th, 2017, 4:23 pm

The Daily Mail, said Kelley was an atheist.Which puts him in the company of Karl Marx, Lenin, Joseph V. Stalin , and Mao Tse Tung , to mention the most notable atheists.
“ignorance of the fact that man has a wounded nature inclined to evil gives rise to serious errors in the areas of education, politics, social action, and morals” (#407).
Catechism of the Catholic Church.
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