EU Referendum

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Re: EU Referendum

Postby Sarniajoy » June 29th, 2017, 7:28 am

The flipping British have colonised so many countries over the centuries, and set up the British Empire, which certainly wasn't to its credit! :o Even if immigrants coming here was a bad thing, which I don't think it is, it is pay back time now!
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Re: EU Referendum

Postby Lyn » June 29th, 2017, 9:25 am

I was pondering on multiculturalism and ghettos and it occurred to me that wherever the British go, they make a little corner of Britain complete with afternoon tea and fences.

Everyone does that which is why, in cities, we have China town, the Jewish quarter, the Irish district, Afro-Caribbean, 'Asian'.....I could go on. There's one part of London which has a large Portugese community. In more recent times we have Russian and Polish. The shops, cafes and restaurants are interesting. Personally I like it that way, just because people hang on to a bit of their heritage doesn't mean they don't mix and get on with others.

However some feel threatened as if 'our' way of life, whatever that is, is disappearing. It never will.
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Re: EU Referendum

Postby Pondero » June 29th, 2017, 9:41 am

Lyn wrote:I was pondering on multiculturalism and ghettos and it occurred to me that wherever the British go, they make a little corner of Britain complete with afternoon tea and fences.

Everyone does that which is why, in cities, we have China town, the Jewish quarter, the Irish district, Afro-Caribbean, 'Asian'.....I could go on. There's one part of London which has a large Portugese community. In more recent times we have Russian and Polish. The shops, cafes and restaurants are interesting. Personally I like it that way, just because people hang on to a bit of their heritage doesn't mean they don't mix and get on with others.

However some feel threatened as if 'our' way of life, whatever that is, is disappearing. It never will.


As far as the English are concerned, nothing could be further from the truth,.In Canada , the English blend in as far as possible with home-grown Canadians.
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Re: EU Referendum

Postby Theophilus » June 29th, 2017, 8:05 pm

Sarniajoy wrote:The flipping British have colonised so many countries over the centuries, and set up the British Empire, which certainly wasn't to its credit! :o Even if immigrants coming here was a bad thing, which I don't think it is, it is pay back time now!


So, no engagement with the statistics. Unsurprising.
However, by comparing the current influx of immigrants to the colonization of other countries by the British in the past you are at least giving a more realistic description of what is going on currently in Western Europe. I'd have been jumped all over to have equated current immigration levels to a de facto colonization of Western Europe, but you've gone and done it all by yourself.
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Re: EU Referendum

Postby Theophilus » June 29th, 2017, 8:24 pm

Back on topic:

An amendment to the Queen's speech by one Labour MP to keep the UK in the single market and customs union after Brexit has been defeated. Jeremy Corbyn ordered his party to not vote on the proposal. About 50 MPs rebelled by voting in favour of the proposal; Corbyn has sacked a number of them from the frontbench for breaking the whip.

The irony of the perpetual backbench rebel sacking MPs for insubordination is not my reason for bringing this up. What this act by Corbyn shows is how committed he is to leaving the EU, and how he has not lost his Europhobic sensibilities, even whilst nominally supporting Remain during the referendum. This shouldn't be surprising, as one of Corbyn's key policies is nationalization of certain industries. This cannot happen whilst a member of the EU, nor, I suspect, part of the single market. This is why the Labour manifesto explicitly pledged to take Britain out of the EU, and why shadow chancellor McDonnell said in interviews this means leaving the single market and customs union too.

Remaining in the EU is finished. Part of Labour's success in its traditional heartlands was down to the manifesto pledge to leave the EU, which prevented Labour hemorrhaging Leave voters to the Tories. In the last GE, over 80% voted for parties explicitly promising to take Britain out of the EU. The parties that were loudly calling for overturning the result, holding another referendum, or keeping the UK in Europe in all but name all saw their vote-share decrease (Greens, Lib Dems, SNP etc). The most successful party in Northern Ireland, the DUP, also pledged to support the UK's exit from the EU.

As I said earlier up-thread, before the result in 2016, there are reasons for leaving the EU right across the political spectrum. The hard-core Remainers are all largely homogeneous: rich globalists with vested interests in the EU. Which of the many possible paths outside the EU we choose is down to us and our vote in the future. A future outside the EU.
Last edited by Theophilus on July 6th, 2017, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: EU Referendum

Postby GregB » July 6th, 2017, 7:10 am

An update on FGM in the UK:
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-40491311

To FGM and polygamy, one might add the Muslim 'grooming gangs' involved in the widespread sexual abuse of young girls.
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Re: EU Referendum

Postby Sarniajoy » July 6th, 2017, 7:46 am

FGM is evil, but then so is circumcising boys unless it is done for genuine medical reasons, certainly not because some god supposedly decreed it! :twisted:
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Re: EU Referendum

Postby Lyn » July 6th, 2017, 8:19 am

When I was a teenager, the 'groomers' were Jamaicans. Prior to that they were Maltese. Plenty of native English all the time but we heard a lot more about those I've mentioned.
I suppose it depended on where you lived. Russians are apparently quite good at girl grooming too :roll: , very organised. Nasty stuff.

I'm not surprised to read the statistics about FGM amongst Somalis, it seems to be ingrained in the culture. If anyone has watched, "Call the Midwife", it was highlighted in one episode when a young Somalian woman was pregnant. The midwives hadn't seen anything like it before (late 50s/early 60s), she had a Caesarian. Her younger sister who lived with her went to Somalia during the episode for the same procedure. The woman believed it was absolutely right!

Though it is illegal here there are doctors who will perform it.

With something like that, the change has to come from the women. Just because something has been done for centuries doesn't make it right, they need to get it out of their heads! There's a famous model (Waris Dirie), who hails from that part of the world, who had that procedure. She has written quite extensively about and campaigns against it.

Alice Walker's book, "Possessing the Secret of Joy", gives a lot of detail about FGM , which used to be called infibulation (one of the main characters in the book has it by choice because she wants to 'belong'; lives to regret it); in her research Aiice Walker uncovered many cases of it happening to women in the Western world in the past, who were considered to be of loose morals*. We tend to think it is an exclusively African practice.

*
http://theconversation.com/the-rise-and ... ndon-38327
http://notchesblog.com/2014/11/18/clito ... 1860-2014/
http://www.fgmnetwork.org/articles/duffy.htm
http://www.mintpressnews.com/MyMPN/fema ... n-history/

Erm....we've travelled from the EU referendum! How did we get on to this subject? Never mind though.
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Re: EU Referendum

Postby Theophilus » July 6th, 2017, 10:11 pm

GregB wrote:An update on FGM in the UK:
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-40491311

To FGM and polygamy, one might add the Muslim 'grooming gangs' involved in the widespread sexual abuse of young girls.


Indeed, and even the Muslim* grooming gangs can be traced back to cultural Islam, where uneducated Muslims look at their prophet's example, rather than the rule of law, for age of consent. Quranic teachings on modesty are also distorted, so that white teenage and pre-teen girls who dress differently are seen as being sexually available.

And again, to briefly touch on Lyn's post above, to pretend that these problems will be overcome through integration is naive for two reasons:

1) the aforementioned scale of immigration today prevent communities from 'mixing' and so newly arrived immigrants are insulated from the West's more liberal and secular outlook

and

2) With respect to Muslim-majority ethnic groups, there is a real resistance to integrating in any case.






*And they are Muslim rather than Asian. The tendency for media outlets like the BBC to call these gangs "Asian" is insulting to Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists in the sub-continent, not to mention the Chinese, Japanese, Korean and other ethnic groups on that vast continent.
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Re: EU Referendum

Postby maz » April 13th, 2018, 9:48 pm

Sarniajoy wrote:The flipping British have colonised so many countries over the centuries, and set up the British Empire, which certainly wasn't to its credit! :o Even if immigrants coming here was a bad thing, which I don't think it is, it is pay back time now!

just wondering - how are things, re. Doctors, hospital appointments, schools etc in the multicultural (because of recent immigration) district that you live in?
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