EU Referendum

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Re: EU Referendum

Postby sarniajoy » June 27th, 2017, 7:45 am

Theophilus wrote:
Sarniajoy wrote:
Pondero wrote:I'll ignore your stupid comment Sarniajoy.

My old school pal who now lives in Leicester has no computer, and no access to the internet.I wish he did so that we could communicate more often.


You obviously didn't ignore it! :lol:

Britain is a country built on incomers, most of our ancestors weren't born here. Long may that be the case.


Demonstrably untrue. If you think the sustained immigration figures over the past decade are even vaguely comparable with any other point in British history, at a time when the population density of the country has never been higher, then you are deluded.


It is you who is deluded most of our ancestors were incomers. Britain needs migrants to help staff the health service and other things, the more the merrier, imo.
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Re: EU Referendum

Postby Sprocket » June 27th, 2017, 11:26 am

I'm with Sarnie on this one - and her previous post for once offers something in the way of reasoning behind her statement. That's not to say that I won't have a pop at her in the near future, when she reverts to type and posts something crass.
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Re: EU Referendum

Postby sarniajoy » June 27th, 2017, 1:55 pm

Sprocket wrote:I'm with Sarnie on this one - and her previous post for once offers something in the way of reasoning behind her statement. That's not to say that I won't have a pop at her in the near future, when she reverts to type and posts something crass.



And of course none of your posts are ever crass, are they? :lol:
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Re: EU Referendum

Postby Theophilus » June 27th, 2017, 6:58 pm

Sarniajoy wrote:It is you who is deluded most of our ancestors were incomers. Britain needs migrants to help staff the health service and other things, the more the merrier, imo.


When you are talking about "ancestors", I would like you to be more specific. The current level of immigration, coupled with the amount of emigration of British nationals is not comparable with anything in recent history. As I say, I would be interested in how far back you go in British history to find something comparable.

The dependency on migration to staff the health service has a couple of reasons behind it (hint: it's no surprise that the arch penny-pincher Jeremy Hunt was also in favour of remaining in the EU), but one of the reasons the NHS needs so much extra staff is..... the unprecedented numbers of immigration. So clearly more immigration is not the answer to that particular conundrum.
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Re: EU Referendum

Postby sarniajoy » June 28th, 2017, 7:39 am

Theophilus wrote:
Sarniajoy wrote:It is you who is deluded most of our ancestors were incomers. Britain needs migrants to help staff the health service and other things, the more the merrier, imo.


When you are talking about "ancestors", I would like you to be more specific. The current level of immigration, coupled with the amount of emigration of British nationals is not comparable with anything in recent history. As I say, I would be interested in how far back you go in British history to find something comparable.

The dependency on migration to staff the health service has a couple of reasons behind it (hint: it's no surprise that the arch penny-pincher Jeremy Hunt was also in favour of remaining in the EU), but one of the reasons the NHS needs so much extra staff is..... the unprecedented numbers of immigration. So clearly more immigration is not the answer to that particular conundrum.


I am one of these terrible migrants, as I wasn't actually born here in the UK, but I have as much right to be here as anyone else. One of my ancestors whose is featured in the British history books was around in the 12th century. Why are you against immigration, this country would grind to a halt without it?
Last edited by sarniajoy on June 28th, 2017, 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: EU Referendum

Postby Lyn » June 28th, 2017, 10:50 am

I think what Theo is saying is that there has been too much immigration in recent times, not that there shouldn't be any.

As for immigrants necessitating more immigrant workers to the NHS (for example), to care for them, all my life people from overseas have come to work for the NHS, some for short periods and some have stayed here. I worked in the NHS nearly all my working life up until 2001 and my colleagues came from far and wide. In particular, for the last couple years when I was at work, nurses from Australia and South Africa were not only applying for jobs but were sought. Doctors were from all around the globe.

Immigrant workers did many other jobs too, cleaning, catering, portering, some of which the home grown UK population wouldn't do because the wages were so poor and the hours unsocial.

If people pay tax here they are entitled to have NHS treatment regardless of where they were born - and sooner or later the majority of immigrants do pay tax, there is a greater work ethic amongst them than amongst the uneducated Britishers. Their children will grow up to be British, better educated and with marketable skills.
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Re: EU Referendum

Postby sarniajoy » June 28th, 2017, 12:41 pm

I think it better if theo speaks for himself.
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Re: EU Referendum

Postby Lyn » June 28th, 2017, 1:11 pm

Yes Sarniajay, I did say, "I think...", but you are right about that and no doubt Theo will be back later.

However I said a lot more than just that first sentence, giving my opinions, some of which I thought you might agree with!
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Re: EU Referendum

Postby GregB » June 28th, 2017, 6:15 pm

Europe has had a homogeneous population for centuries, mostly made up of those from the western lands of the European peninsular. The post Second World War influx of people from the former colonies was just a drop in the ocean, especially compared with the millions of Muslims welcomed by guilt-ridden fools like Angela Merkel in only three years. Our Europe has been reinforced and stalwartly defended in past ages - thank God - by Christian heroes such as Charlemagne as well as the thousand-year Byzantine Empire and its divine Orthodox bulwark against our pagan Persian and Islamic enemies and, in all important and foundational religious and cultural terms, the successors of Judeo-Christian civilisation. This is now under threat from rampant secularism and, above all, Islamism, now controlling huge swathes of European cities, largely thanks to the suicidal policies of political progressivist fools, although there are, thankfully, exceptions, such as those in Hungary under the admirable Victor Urban, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Poland, lands which have experienced godless tyranny at first hand under the Orwellian heel of communism, all of which have closed their borders to alien Muslim immigrants who are destroying our European homeland with their stealthy ghettoist and demographic jihadism.

There have been various influxes of immigrants over the centuries from continental Europe - my father was a descendant of Huguenot refugees from ultra-Catholic France in the 16th century - but they assimilated gratefully, enriching the economy, and none of them reached the huge proportions which are now destroying Europe by the invading in massive terms of an alien religious-cultural-political ideology, none of whom we have any responsibility to welcome and any such 'laws' in that favour can be rescinded in the name of Christian warrior-heroes such as Charles Martel, (Tours 732), Jan Sobieski (Vienna 1685) and the Holy League at the Battle of Lepanto (1571), when the Islamic naval forces were crushed once and for all.

Those immigrants many of whom are second or third generation and well assimilated are clearly a benefit to our society. But that is the crux of the matter - assimilation and not the myth of multi-cultural diversity.
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Re: EU Referendum

Postby Theophilus » June 28th, 2017, 9:11 pm

Sarniajoy wrote:I think it better if theo speaks for himself.


No, I am not saying immigration should be stopped completely (in any case it is not possible). Now, are you going to try and defend your own "more the merrier" views?

You could start by actually answering what I asked: when has immigration ever been comparable to its current levels and rate?

Let me help you some time:

During the 1950's, the British Government encouraged people from the Commonwealth, mainly the West Indies, to come to the UK and fill the shortfall in labour created by WWII. Integration wasn't easy, and there was a lot of resistance to West Indian families coming over here and settling here. Many of the same arguments made today against immigration were made then: they cannot integrate, they are taking jobs from low-skilled native Brits etc. However, eventually, these communities did integrate into British society and made their own cultural contributions to the UK. A positive example, but not without its difficulties.

But how many West Indians actually emigrated to the UK? About 150,000, over a period of ten years (1951-1961).

In 2016 alone, 514,000 non-British citizens entered the UK. These numbers have remained above the 500,000 mark for the past fifteen years.

Quite simply, there is no comparison with any period of sustained immigration in the UK during the 20th century. Or the 19th. Or the 18th. Or the 17th (thanks to Greg for giving some examples from these past centuries, and showing that they are not comparable with what is going on now, and thanks also to Greg for highlighting what has happened in other western European countries over the past couple of years: again, totally incomparable to any other wave of migration in the past).

So, when can we find a comparable period in British history to what is happening now? "Immigration has always happened" is an inadequate argument, because as I said at the top of this post, it is not immigration per se I am arguing against, just the "more the merrier" attitude of someone who, I suspect, doesn't have to live in a place where many newly-arrived immigrants end up.

Answers longer than a sentence are welcome. Add in some statistics to back your arguments up and I might fall out of my chair.
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