Who Do You Side With?

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Re: Who Do You Side With?

Postby Pondero » June 14th, 2017, 11:17 am

The problem with the Labour Party, which I would vote for if I lived in England is the views of it's leader. Corbyn is a Marxist p!ain and simple.I knew they would get more seats . However, they now have time to change the leadership before the next election.
We live at a time ...characterized by a subliminal relativism that penetrates every area of life. Sometimes this relativism becomes aggressive, when it opposes those who say that they know where the truth or meaning of life is to be found. Benedict XV1.
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Re: Who Do You Side With?

Postby Sprocket » June 14th, 2017, 11:26 am

He is not a Marxist, and why on earth should they change a leader who gave them such an unexpectedly good result?
Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
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Re: Who Do You Side With?

Postby GregB » June 14th, 2017, 12:39 pm

It all depends on what is meant by 'Marxist',* a very broad term (like 'Christian'.) However, I think it's reasonable to say that those on the far left in the Labour Party are, in varying degrees, influenced by some of the mainstream tenets of Marxist ideology and praxis. There is also the ongoing question of the interpretation of Clause IV in the 1918 Labour Party constitution, where public ownership (read: state ownership) of the means of production and other utilities is clearly influenced by Marxist thought (as, indeed, are most other elements of pure socialism.)

I think Corbyn's victory owes a lot to May's wrongfooted decision to call a snap election as well as a lacklustre campaign and a disastrous, hastily-cobbled together manifesto conceived by a small, conceited political elite out of touch with grass roots realities. That's to say, much of the mini-Corbyn tsunami is by default and I really can't see the Labour Party under his leadership gaining sufficient support in vital areas beyond his own, somewhat circumscribed, national political constituency.

[* Curiously, on his deathbed, Marx is reported to have said, "I am not a Marxist". It's not known whether Engels, who was present, responded, "But what the hell, Karl - you mean I've spent all my capitalist profits and rentier earnings on you and your ideas for nothing?"]
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Re: Who Do You Side With?

Postby Pondero » June 14th, 2017, 6:49 pm

The election was lost because of Mrs. May's policies especially the one about making senior citizens use the proceeds of their own home for 'senile' care in their old age. Seniors get out and vote, and if they own their own home, they vote Conservative. this time the property owning class, some seniors, either did not vote or voted Labour.

Even if Corbyn is not a Marxist in the truest sense, a Communist, one who believes in emancipation of the proletariat ( all who live by wages only) he has some weird ideas about Israel, and likes Hamas leaders and IRA leaders, and is "soft" on Islamists. Enough to make him ruin the UK, if ever he was Prime Minister.
We live at a time ...characterized by a subliminal relativism that penetrates every area of life. Sometimes this relativism becomes aggressive, when it opposes those who say that they know where the truth or meaning of life is to be found. Benedict XV1.
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Re: Who Do You Side With?

Postby GregB » June 14th, 2017, 7:09 pm

The election was lost because of Mrs. May's policies

As I said earlier, there were other factors in play. And the election wasn't 'lost'; the Conservative Party still has by far the most seats in parliament and gained the most votes in the election, albeit by a fairly narrow margin. They just lack an overall parliamentary majority.
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Re: Who Do You Side With?

Postby Pondero » June 14th, 2017, 8:37 pm

GregB wrote:
The election was lost because of Mrs. May's policies

As I said earlier, there were other factors in play. And the election wasn't 'lost'; the Conservative Party still has by far the most seats in parliament and gained the most votes in the election, albeit by a fairly narrow margin. They just lack an overall parliamentary majority.

That is rather strange.I didn't check the numbers Greg but if true then where did the Conservative additional votes come from, as the Labour Party gained seats....., and numbers?.
Well, mystery it will remain as I am not going to dig into the numbers. It could be that the turnout was greater.( I have just cut the lawn and trimmed both of them. I am exhausted.)
We live at a time ...characterized by a subliminal relativism that penetrates every area of life. Sometimes this relativism becomes aggressive, when it opposes those who say that they know where the truth or meaning of life is to be found. Benedict XV1.
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Re: Who Do You Side With?

Postby Sprocket » June 14th, 2017, 9:24 pm

More people voted, and the UKRAP vote collapsed, its votes in the last election largely going to both Labour and Tories.
Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason.
Sir John Harington (1561-1620)
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Re: Who Do You Side With?

Postby Pondero » June 14th, 2017, 9:36 pm

Sprocket wrote:More people voted, and the UKRAP vote collapsed, its votes in the last election largely going to both Labour and Tories.

Thanks for the info.Sprocket.
I did read somewhere that the SNP people tended to vote Conservative, but that is all I know.
We live at a time ...characterized by a subliminal relativism that penetrates every area of life. Sometimes this relativism becomes aggressive, when it opposes those who say that they know where the truth or meaning of life is to be found. Benedict XV1.
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Re: Who Do You Side With?

Postby Sprocket » June 14th, 2017, 9:57 pm

The SNP lost a lot of ground, but it was bound to, given its amazing ahowing two years ago.
Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason.
Sir John Harington (1561-1620)
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Re: Who Do You Side With?

Postby gone » June 15th, 2017, 7:28 am

Pondero wrote:
Sprocket wrote:More people voted, and the UKRAP vote collapsed, its votes in the last election largely going to both Labour and Tories.

Thanks for the info.Sprocket.
I did read somewhere that the SNP people tended to vote Conservative, but that is all I know.


I would have thought they were more likely to vote Labour.
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