Referendum in Catalonia

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Referendum in Catalonia

Postby GregB » October 1st, 2017, 4:00 pm

Turbulent day here with the (illegal) referendum for the independence of Catalonia. I'm sure you will all have seen, or will see, reports on your news channels, and perhaps there may be comments here later. Let's see...
"The wiles of dissembling fate afford us the illusion of freedom, yet in the end always lead us into the same trap."
- Jean Cocteau
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Re: Referendum in Catalonia

Postby sarniajoy » October 2nd, 2017, 9:39 am

There was no excuse for the Spanish police to behave in such a violent way! :o Think Catalonia had every right to conduct a independence vote
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Re: Referendum in Catalonia

Postby Pondero » October 2nd, 2017, 10:23 am

RT, (Russian television) showed examples of police brutality that I have not seen on our two mainline Canadian broadcasters i.e. CBC and CTV.
Where do you draw the line for a democratic vote to be fair. Do you include the vote of all Spaniards in such a referendum or do you consider only the vote of Catalonians. ?
According to one study, the average adult has a shorter attention span (eight seconds) than a goldfish (nine seconds).
This is not surprising in today's wired , or wified world.
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Re: Referendum in Catalonia

Postby GregB » October 2nd, 2017, 11:47 am

The referendum was only for Catalonia and it was illegal under the Spanish constitution, called only by separatist parties here. It's a complicated issue and perhaps too much so to go into detail here, but what is certain is that the Spanish government has handled the whole business badly, not least with the unnecessary, uncontrolled violence of the national police and the Guardia Civil in the face of non-violent people wishing to vote (albeit illegally.) The regional Catalan government has now said it will declare independence later this week, which will totally fly in the face of the central government in Madrid and will be certain to provoke a grave political and constitutional crisis, although - God forbid - not another civil war.

I'm sure others here must have seen the images on television so I'm a bit miffed that there haven't been more comments, not least as a long-standing fellow member (ie. me!) has lived here for decades and there might just have been some interest shown apart from the two members who have decently chipped in. Oh well...
"The wiles of dissembling fate afford us the illusion of freedom, yet in the end always lead us into the same trap."
- Jean Cocteau
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Re: Referendum in Catalonia

Postby Lyn » October 2nd, 2017, 2:57 pm

Lots of posts on here go either unnoticed or unmentioned, you're not alone. A while back someone else was quite upset about her post or posts not receiving response, she felt quite slighted; it was a bit over the top especially as one or two had responded to said posts and there aren't many of us, she also didn't always notice other people's posts. I did speak to her about it privately. It's the way it goes.

I saw something about your subject on the News last night but can't say I grasped it all - though you have explained a bit which helps. There's a lot going on in the world which is far more worrying and interesting than the illegal Catalonian referendum but I understand it is important to you as you live in Barcelona.
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Re: Referendum in Catalonia

Postby Sprocket » October 2nd, 2017, 5:45 pm

I've only seen bits and pieces on the front of various newspapers so far - no doubt I'll find out more on the late news tonight. It looks as though the national government handled it with breathtaking incompetence, calculated to increase support of the separatist movement.
Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason.
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Re: Referendum in Catalonia

Postby GregB » October 2nd, 2017, 8:08 pm

There's a lot going on in the world which is far more worrying and interesting than the illegal Catalonian referendum but I understand it is important to you as you live in Barcelona.

Indeed, and it would be interesting to discuss all those great issues here at greater length. Let's work on it...

Here's the latest on the crisis here in a nutshell:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41475770
"The wiles of dissembling fate afford us the illusion of freedom, yet in the end always lead us into the same trap."
- Jean Cocteau
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Re: Referendum in Catalonia

Postby Sprocket » October 3rd, 2017, 7:54 am

Much discussion on Facebook about whether the referendum was illegal, or merely not legally binding. Some dim-wits don't understand the difference, and of those who do, it seems to come down, depressingly but predictably, to whether the poster sympathises with Catalan independence or not, rather than objective considerations.
Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason.
Sir John Harington (1561-1620)
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Re: Referendum in Catalonia

Postby Pondero » October 3rd, 2017, 9:45 am

The main problem in my view is -will this lead to another Spanish civil war?
I hope the PM and the unelected,but supported (90%) *Catalonian leader can see that.
I know nothing about the Catalonian leader, but I have seen the PM on TV with President Trump last week. He appears to be a tired looking aged individual, and only from his appearance - seems out of his depth.
These are superficial judgements, I acknowledge but it is all I have to work on.

* According to one of the following stations I switched on this morning . CNN, CBC or CTV.
According to one study, the average adult has a shorter attention span (eight seconds) than a goldfish (nine seconds).
This is not surprising in today's wired , or wified world.
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Re: Referendum in Catalonia

Postby GregB » October 3rd, 2017, 10:53 am

Post moved forward.
Last edited by GregB on October 3rd, 2017, 12:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"The wiles of dissembling fate afford us the illusion of freedom, yet in the end always lead us into the same trap."
- Jean Cocteau
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