Heaven is for real.

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Heaven is for real.

Postby Ishy » February 15th, 2015, 11:44 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mydh4MEo2B0

Wanted to share this film and ask if anyone had seen it. It is very moving and inspiring in the truth which a 3 year old child could not invent... :) :thumbsup:
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Re: Heaven is for real.

Postby Sweet Peace » February 15th, 2015, 11:53 pm

I'd watch that. Thanks, Ishy.
Where sin abounded, grace did much more abound.
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Re: Heaven is for real.

Postby Bev » February 16th, 2015, 5:16 pm

I did watch it recently, and I thought it was very convincing. The only question I had was when the child saw a Jesus with blue eyes. It's caused me to wonder if there are some natives to the region where Jesus was born that actually do have blue eyes.

(For someone hasn't seen the film, the only picture of Jesus the child recognized as him was a portrait painted by another child who also had a similar experience.)
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Re: Heaven is for real.

Postby GregB » February 16th, 2015, 6:05 pm

I watched the short interview with the real boy and his parents which is on the same page as the link. When the boy said that everyone in heaven wears wings, the doubts I already had about the whole thing mushroomed (and the 'blue-eyed Jesus' didn't help either; as far as I know from Semite physiognomy and ancient Israel's history, there were no people in the region where Jesus was born who had blue eyes.) After recalling St. Paul's words about the incredible things in store for believers ("eye has not seen...") it seemed to me that this child's vision of heaven was rather boring in comparison. Christ himself said that no one had seen heaven except the one who had come from there (ie Jesus himself) - John 3:13 - so although the boy may have seen things he couldn't have known about before his near-death experience (NDE's are a whole field in themselves, many from non-Christians), I suspect his visit to heaven was largely the work of a child's imagination fed by a few stock cliches.
"The wiles of dissembling fate afford us the illusion of freedom, yet in the end always lead us into the same trap."
- Jean Cocteau
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Re: Heaven is for real.

Postby Bev » February 16th, 2015, 6:44 pm

It's possible that all NDE's are God/Jesus reaching out to us through our own minds. That could explain the angles with wings. But, even without that, look at how John described the visions in Revelations. He too relied on what he knew to describe what was obviously foreign to him.

The most compelling part of the story was what the boy came back knowing. He met his older sister. The mother and father never talked about the baby they had lost in the womb, but the boy described a girl who said she was his sister and who looked like their mother. Also, the things he said about his paternal grandfather convinced the father that the boy had to have met with him.

It's hard to explain how the boy would have known such details that only the parents knew beforehand.

On the blue eyes, it is possible that some semitic people by that time might have mixed with early races that ended up populating Europe. They had, after all, lived in exile a number of centuries before returning to Judea.
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Re: Heaven is for real.

Postby Lyn » February 16th, 2015, 7:26 pm

Near Death Experiences are dreams that happen just before someone is resuscitated. Not everyone has one, even when emerging from a coma. Means nothing.
A few years back there was somone bitten by a deadly jellyfish; the medics managed to save him against all odds but he has dined out on his pre-recovery dream experience ever since.

We all dream!

Jesus would most likely have had brown eyes. Sunday school pics occasionally show him with blue but it is unlikely.
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Re: Heaven is for real.

Postby GregB » February 16th, 2015, 7:28 pm

It's possible that all NDE's are God/Jesus reaching out to us through our own minds.

What, then, of all those NDE's (which, whatever they are, are not dreams) where people do not encounter Christ, just a radiant figure of light (many thought it was the Buddha!)? In any case, conversion to Christ involves recognition of one's own sinful condition, repentance, faith in the tenets of the gospel in the teachings of Christ. NDE's just seem like an easy short cut and a way of avoiding all that - not to mention the fact that those who have experienced them would have the advantage over the poor souls who haven't and must come to faith the hard way by their own volition and conviction of sin.
It's hard to explain how the boy would have known such details that only the parents knew beforehand.

That may be inexplicable but it doesn't prove the rest of his story.
On the blue eyes, it is possible that some semitic people by that time might have mixed with early races that ended up populating Europe. They had, after all, lived in exile a number of centuries before returning to Judea.

Sheer speculation and historically wrong anyway. Their exile was in Babylon, a region in present-day Iraq (not that far from Israel) whose inhabitants were also swarthy and dark-eyed. And any 'early races that ended up populating Europe' from that region would have looked the same, not blue-eyed (or fair haired, like the preposterous Jeffrey Hunter in 'King of Kings' or the Aryan Jesus, Max von Sydow, in 'The Greatest Story Ever Told'.)

In Revelation, John described the visions granted to him by Christ on the island of Patmos. Their tremendous richness and power and images of glory have nothing to do with the banal pictures described by that boy.

The bottom line in all this, of course, is that it adds not one jot to the core basics of the Christian faith, "delivered once and for all" (Jude 3) to the early church.

I referred earlier to John 3:13 - " And no one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven, even the Son of Man". I'll take Christ's own words before those of a young boy, whatever experiences he claims to have had.
"The wiles of dissembling fate afford us the illusion of freedom, yet in the end always lead us into the same trap."
- Jean Cocteau
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Re: Heaven is for real.

Postby Pondero » February 16th, 2015, 8:44 pm

It is supposed to be based on a true story, and we all know what movie directors can do to distort a true story. Although I haven't seen the new movie Robin Hood, I have read a review of it and any resemblance between the real life of Robin Hood and what is depicted in the movie is rare and purely co-incidental.
It may be the same in this case.
If the boy in real life stated things after his near death experience which he couldn't possibly have known, he could have been told such things by supernatural beings, good angels or bad. It is not likely that his vision came from the Blessed Virgin Mary, as she always reveals herself as being the originator of visions. (Fatima and Lourdes for example) and I give a lot more credence to those than to the visions of a young boy who had a NDE.
According to one study, the average adult has a shorter attention span (eight seconds) than a goldfish (nine seconds).
This is not surprising in today's wired , or wified world.
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Re: Heaven is for real.

Postby Theophilus » February 16th, 2015, 11:31 pm

With respect to Near-Death Experiences, it is worth noting that the devil and the demons are part of the aeriel powers, that is - dwelling in the realm between heaven and earth. In that state between life and death we are under particular danger from demonic temptation, which in this situation would mean manifesting as "angels of ligt" or even Christ Himself. It feeds into our own selfish desires that at death we will be met with Jesus and taken by the hand into heaven, but what we are told - sternly for our own good - is that after death comes the judgement. What characterizes a lot of these NDEs is how 'pleasant' they are, without any fear of judgement... to give this feeling to a soul and then place it back into the body, what would be the result? Negligence towards repentance and spiritual growth, which would seem an odd thing for God to do to a person. Greg mentions this too, above.

Of course, if many 'classic' NDEs are demonic in origin then that would easily explain why there is consistency between them, and why people can be given information they couldn't possibly know (but would be easy for a fallen angel to know and communicate).

Anyway, this article attempts to explain the origins of modern NDEs, contrasting them with examples that are believed to be genuine (the key is that 'genuine' NDEs tend to leave the person who experienced it wiser than before, or driven to do more for his own repentance, care for others etc.):

http://orthodoxinfo.com/death/nde.aspx
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Re: Heaven is for real.

Postby Bev » February 17th, 2015, 2:01 am

Theophilus wrote:Anyway, this article attempts to explain the origins of modern NDEs, contrasting them with examples that are believed to be genuine (the key is that 'genuine' NDEs tend to leave the person who experienced it wiser than before, or driven to do more for his own repentance, care for others etc.):



I do agree very much with this.
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