The Catholic Church today

For discussions about Christianity, from any point of view.
Forum rules
For discussions about Christianity, from any point of view. Christians and those of any other faith or of none are equally welcome, provided they treat others with respect at all times.

Re: The Catholic Church today

Postby Pondero » July 4th, 2018, 1:17 am

Sprocket wrote:I should think so too. The seal of the confessional is a bloody scandal if it leads to information about dangerous criminals not being passed on. I don't think Australia is alone in not recognising it in law. The Catholic Church should make it clear that it does not apply in the case of serious crime.


I take it you are not serious!
If you are then consider doctor/patient relationship, lawyer/client relationship, newspaper reporter and his source. All are recognized in law as being confidential and private.
According to one study, the average adult has a shorter attention span (eight seconds) than a goldfish (nine seconds).
This is not surprising in today's wired , or wified world.
User avatar
Pondero
 
Posts: 12612
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:03 am
Location: Etobicoke,Ontario, Canada

Re: The Catholic Church today

Postby Sprocket » July 4th, 2018, 8:05 am

Pondero wrote:
Sprocket wrote:I should think so too. The seal of the confessional is a bloody scandal if it leads to information about dangerous criminals not being passed on. I don't think Australia is alone in not recognising it in law. The Catholic Church should make it clear that it does not apply in the case of serious crime.


I take it you are not serious!
If you are then consider doctor/patient relationship, lawyer/client relationship, newspaper reporter and his source. All are recognized in law as being confidential and private.

Not to the extent of not passing on information about a serious crime such as murder.
Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason.
Sir John Harington (1561-1620)
User avatar
Sprocket
 
Posts: 16061
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:21 am
Location: Hemel Hempstead, Herts.

Re: The Catholic Church today

Postby Pondero » July 4th, 2018, 9:19 am

Sprocket wrote:
Pondero wrote:
Sprocket wrote:I should think so too. The seal of the confessional is a bloody scandal if it leads to information about dangerous criminals not being passed on. I don't think Australia is alone in not recognising it in law. The Catholic Church should make it clear that it does not apply in the case of serious crime.


I take it you are not serious!
If you are then consider doctor/patient relationship, lawyer/client relationship, newspaper reporter and his source. All are recognized in law as being confidential and private.

Not to the extent of not passing on information about a serious crime such as murder.


You won't find any Catholic priest who will obey such an unjust attack on religious beliefs.They would die before revealing the contents of the Confession. There is the law of God , which they believe in, and the law of man.And when they are opposed , the priest will make the right choice.
According to one study, the average adult has a shorter attention span (eight seconds) than a goldfish (nine seconds).
This is not surprising in today's wired , or wified world.
User avatar
Pondero
 
Posts: 12612
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:03 am
Location: Etobicoke,Ontario, Canada

Re: The Catholic Church today

Postby Sprocket » July 4th, 2018, 10:24 am

Well, that's one of many reasons I'll never become a Catholic. So if a serial killer confesses to a priest, the priest should keep it to himself and let him continue killing?
Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason.
Sir John Harington (1561-1620)
User avatar
Sprocket
 
Posts: 16061
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:21 am
Location: Hemel Hempstead, Herts.

Re: The Catholic Church today

Postby Lyn » July 4th, 2018, 11:09 am

That's a hard case, Sprocks. How many serial killers do you think there are who are Catholic and would confess to a priest? It obviously happens from time to time.
Another way of looking at it is, who else would a serial killer go to for help?

I think many more crimes are stopped in their tracks because of Confession. A priest will counsel a person to stop and give themselves up, could well end up accompanying them to the police station & continuing to support them through trial and prison. I don't know what impression you've got, maybe 'saying three Hail Marys and the slate's clean'? It's not like that unless all you've done is park in a Disabled space (& would anyone bother confessing something like that anyway). Priests will often build up a relationship with someone through confession.

The seal of Confession protects more than serial killers, anyone can discuss any problem in confession and know it will go no further, there aren't many people you can trust to keep your embarrassing secrets safe, and help you. So there has to be a rule for everyone, if they started to make it confidential for some things and not others the boundaries would go up and down. One of the things, and there were a few, I found comforting about being a Catholic was that sacrament, just to know it was there even if I didn't use it gave me a sense of security.

It is actually called 'The Sacrament of Reconciliation'. In order to be reconciled with God a person has to genuinely repent, proof of genuine repentance in the case of serious crime would involve turning yourself in, but you wouldn't be alone.
Lyn
 
Posts: 48782
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:25 am

Re: The Catholic Church today

Postby Pondero » July 4th, 2018, 2:02 pm

Very well said ,Lyn.
According to one study, the average adult has a shorter attention span (eight seconds) than a goldfish (nine seconds).
This is not surprising in today's wired , or wified world.
User avatar
Pondero
 
Posts: 12612
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:03 am
Location: Etobicoke,Ontario, Canada

Re: The Catholic Church today

Postby Pondero » August 3rd, 2018, 5:39 pm

I wrote this morning about the Pope and the death penalty, which had wider implications than affect the members of the Catholic Church, Some ex-Catholics agree with the Pope, and some Catholics (not all) do not.
If you are a member of the Catholic Church, who truly believe in what the Church has taught in the past , in the traditional manner, your eyes must recoil in horror when our present Pope changes the teaching of the Church that has always been believed. As he did in this case by changing the Catechism. The Catholic Church is not able to contradict itself ,and remain the true Church of Christ.
As I have pointed out before, I am speaking of the laws of God which can not be changed, not the laws of man which can, if necessary.The right of a country to apply the death penalty in some, serious circumstances, remains the laws of God.This Pope is doing something no other Pope has done previously, he is trying to destroy the Catholic Church.He will not succeed. As it says in the gospel. " And the gates of Hell will not prevail against it."
According to one study, the average adult has a shorter attention span (eight seconds) than a goldfish (nine seconds).
This is not surprising in today's wired , or wified world.
User avatar
Pondero
 
Posts: 12612
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:03 am
Location: Etobicoke,Ontario, Canada

Re: The Catholic Church today

Postby Val » August 10th, 2018, 6:21 pm

Pondero wrote:
You won't find any Catholic priest who will obey such an unjust attack on religious beliefs.They would die before revealing the contents of the Confession. There is the law of God , which they believe in, and the law of man.And when they are opposed , the priest will make the right choice.


The modern (sacrament) of confession was only properly instituted during the 13th century but mostly for cloistered clergy and then only once a year, and later for all adults; they were encouraged to confess regularly by the hierarchy this was to gather important useful information on the lives and wrongdoings of the people and had little to do with soul cleansing.

In the early day of religious ignorance people thought the priest could absolve them of any sin once they confessed, so once they went to confession and were penitent they could be forgiven of any and all sins no matter how monstrous, sometimes these could be forgiven more easily with a gift to the confessor.

The mention of confession in the bible at 1 John 1:9 is nothing like the modern interpretation of it, you could confess your sins before God and the people and gain absolution, later the only intermediary required was Jesus, this holds true to this day for billions of Christians.

There never was a secret clause in the biblical act of confession, it like many other man made improvements make little sense when the lives of innocent ones are at risk,
For many of those priests and bishops who used this principle to keep silent when they knew that some of their clergy brethren were abusing children from babies to young adults it cannot be used as an excuse as they could have notified the authorities in secret and get the children to safety
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”
John Stuart Mill

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
Edmund Burke
User avatar
Val
 
Posts: 3458
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:22 am
Location: Ireland

Re: The Catholic Church today

Postby Pondero » August 10th, 2018, 7:37 pm

The modern (sacrament) of confession was only properly instituted during the 13th century but mostly for cloistered clergy and then only once a year, and later for all adults; they were encouraged to confess regularly by the hierarchy this was to gather important useful information on the lives and wrongdoings of the people and had little to do with soul cleansing.
(Val wrote).

We need only go to Confession once a year now, and that is at about Easter time. As for the second half of the sentence, I think you are making it up.
According to one study, the average adult has a shorter attention span (eight seconds) than a goldfish (nine seconds).
This is not surprising in today's wired , or wified world.
User avatar
Pondero
 
Posts: 12612
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:03 am
Location: Etobicoke,Ontario, Canada

Re: The Catholic Church today

Postby Lyn » August 10th, 2018, 9:13 pm

Well maybe it is made up but is something taught in History in school. Of course History is biased.

However I refer anyone to my previous post about the Sacrament of Reconciliation which I made on July 4th which I believe is far more relevant than history.
Lyn
 
Posts: 48782
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:25 am

PreviousNext

Return to About Christianity

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron