The Catholic Church today

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The Catholic Church today

Postby Pondero » December 2nd, 2015, 11:55 am

]Those looking for an overarching perspective would do well to read George Weigel's recent First Things' essay “What Really Happened at Synod 2015”. Here is one of the most important points he makes:

The synod demonstrated what has been known, if rarely spoken of publicly, for some years: Much of the Church in northern Europe is in a de facto state of schism, not formally detached from Rome and the rest of the world Church, but thinking and living its own ecclesial reality. Some northern European bishops manifestly do not believe and teach what the Catholic Church believes and teaches. German ecclesiology at the ground level is in such a shambles that those who decline to pay the state-collected Kirchensteuer (church tax) can be denied Holy Communion and access to the other sacraments, while those living in irregular relationships are regularly offered Holy Communion. Addressing this de facto (but not de jure) separation of northern European Catholicism from the unity of the world Church—a sad byproduct of intellectual confusions and intellectual arrogance leading to massive pastoral failure—is a serious issue for the Catholic future.

This, in fact, might well be one of the best positives (for those keeping score with plus-and-minus columns) of the Synods: the exposure, on a big stage, of the “frightening decline” of the Church in Germany. It is a sad testament to what decades of capitulation, self-absorption, and facile sophistication eventually and inevitably lead to. The capitulation is matched by raw arrogance. Witness the recent online smirking of someone writing on the German Bishops Conference website about the “Romantic, Poor Church” of Africa.


From CERC.
A sad state of affairs.All I can do is hold fast to what I believe in and not pay serious attention to the new false reformation of the German bishops.It is not the first time this happened to Catholics.
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Re: The Catholic Church today

Postby Pondero » December 10th, 2015, 9:18 pm

Our Youth desperately need clarity , but Pope Francis ‘ actions are creating confusion says psychiatrist Rick Fitzgibbons,MD. In November’s edition of Faithful Insight magazine.

1. Two homosexuals whom Pope Francis met, Yayo Grassi, in Washington DC. “married “ to another man. The Pope did not communicate to him the Church’s teaching on homosexuality or same sex unions so clearly expressed by the two previous two Popes. He related that he felt affirmed by the Holy Father,
Loving a person as a child of God is one thing: implicitly approving of their life¬style through silence is another matter, one that leaves open the questioning of truth.


There are many other examples of this Pope's giving of mixed messages to youth.

The Pope's encouragement of airing formal heresy is severing the Church, says John-Henry Westen in an editorial about covering the recent Synod of the Family.

"The stakes are incredibly high; they literally portend a major schism in the Catholic Church. The reality is, despite the presentation of non-negativity and fraternity inside the Synod hall or aula as it is called, those upholding orthodoxy have been fighting a pitched battle with powerful foes openly proposing heresy , with not a word of correction from Pope Francis.'

I will name the heretics, German Cardinal Walter Kasper, Cardinal Reinhard Marx ( German Bishops' Conference President) who with his intervention , published on the conference website spells out his proposal to allow Holy Communion to couples who remarry after having left "canonically valid" marriages, where their former spouses are sill living.
The Americans are split down the middle,Chicago Archbishop Blaise Cupich suggested openly to the media that even active homosexual couples could be given Holy Communion. Washington Cardinal Donald Wuerl juat completed a media tour using harsh language to put Philadelphia Archbishop Charles Chaput his place.
Vienna Cardinal Christoph Schonborn is another heretic.
On the Canadian side there is one heretic. Gatineau Archbishop Paul Andre Durocher who planted himself firmly in the progressive ( modernist camp in my view as expressed by the St.Pius X.) along with Fr. Thomas Rosica early on in the proceedings.
On the side of the angels so to speak we have our own Cardinal Collins of Toronto who looked very sad and tired when John Henry Westen met him in a restaurant.
Cardinal Sarah who urges Synod to reject the liberal agenda, Archbishop Stanislaw Gadecki of Poland, Cardinal Arinze ( African - holding high office in the Church - would that he becomes the next Pope.) Cardinal Pell of Australia and a group of American cardinals, Cardinal Raymond Burke among them.These clergy are all on the side of the angels holding orthodox Catholic views as taught for the last 2,000 years.
God help us what a mess in today's Church.
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Re: The Catholic Church today

Postby Pondero » January 29th, 2016, 12:41 pm

The latest insult to believing Catholics .by Pope Frances is to commemorate the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation in the Swedish city of Lund in October 2016.
A petition asking the Pope to resign has been circulated around and translated into 11 languages.
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Re: The Catholic Church today

Postby Pondero » January 29th, 2016, 2:39 pm

At Mass today, the retired priest said in prayers . For Pope Francis who walks the walk and talks the talk.

Then I must be in the wrong Church.

Clearly we have a church divided. The traditionalists , read CATHOLIC. Versus the Modernist ,neo-Catholic, of which the Pope is the leader.

I believe what all Catholics believed until 50 years ago. I stand with St.Augustine of Hippo, St.Thomas Aquinas and all the saints.
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Re: The Catholic Church today

Postby GregB » January 29th, 2016, 3:03 pm

Hang on a minute - isn't Pope Francis supposed to be the latest vicar of Christ and head of the Roman Catholic Church as well as the latest successor of St. Peter in apostolic succession? And isn't the Holy Spirit supposed to play a key role in the election of each pontiff? If so, what are we looking at here when you infer that "believing Catholics" should repudiate his affirmations?

Of course, the whole concept of apostolic succession in the person of the bishop of Rome is a travesty, especially when one looks at, for example, the ghastly popes of the 9th century, some of them mere adolescents, others murdering their predecessors, others appointed through nepotism alone. Then we might consider the later Medici and Borgia popes (passing over much of the filth in between), with their concubines and illegitimate offspring, not to mention their military actions as mighty princes against other worldly potentates, such as the arrogant Pope Julius II who made a mockery of Christ's words, "My kingdom is not of this world".

Believe what you like about the supremacy of the Roman church (the basically theocratic successor of the Roman Empire, right down to inherited titles like Pontifex Maximus, head of a pyramidal monarchist institution, and an authoritarian senate/magisterium) but the original community (oikonomia) of the Christian church with its various patriarchal centres (Alexandria, Antioch, Constantinople, etc.) had its balance destroyed by the overreaching claims of the Roman church. And that is one of the fundamental reasons why I regard the Orthodox Church, for all its fragmentation due to historical forces and excessive 'Slavisation' (if I can be excused a probable neologism) as the authentic original church of Christ in as near as is possible to its First Century manifestation.

Edit: I've just seen your latest post, Pondero. OK, then accept that the infallibility of the papacy* is unfounded and prepare for yet another schism.

[* Only declared at the First Vatican Council in 1871 as, probably, a spiteful reaction to the seizure of the Papal States under the reunification of Italy and the reduction of papal power to the small enclave of Vatican City - as if the church of Christ should ever have been a temporal power with all its possessions anyway.]
"The wiles of dissembling fate afford us the illusion of freedom, yet in the end always lead us into the same trap."
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Re: The Catholic Church today

Postby Pondero » January 29th, 2016, 3:58 pm

Well I am glad someone has joined in to this discussion: About the Holy Ghost safeguarding the church from error. well Jesus said about his church, that the "gates of Hell will not prevail against it." Meaning that His Church will last forever. Now that means we will always have a Pope.It doesn't mean we will always have good Popes, but we have very few bad ones outof 266. Pope Francis is a Modernist as described in Pascendi of St Pius X.
Now, the recent comments by the current holder of the Petrine office contradict much of what has been taught before. Off the cuff remarks on airplanes and his pseudo-science of climate change written in his one encyclical.His views contradict the Magisterium.
Now the last time a Pope issued an infallible statement ,guarantied true by Holy Spirit was in 1950, when Pope Pius X11 declared as supreme poniff , ex ecclesia. That all Catholics must believe in the Assumption of the Blessed Mary ever Virgin.

Other points I will deal with later. this one answer goes to show the limits of the Holy Spirit here.

EDIT. The power, infallibility of the Pope has always been believed in the matter of dogma definition.It was clarified at Vatican 1.
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Re: The Catholic Church today

Postby GregB » January 29th, 2016, 5:26 pm

Jesus said about his church, that the "gates of Hell will not prevail against it." Meaning that His Church will last forever. Now that means we will always have a Pope.I

I agree that his church will last forever. If - as is evident - you take the Roman Catholic view which only applies that verse to the Catholic church, then I totally disagree. The church will always have its head, it's true, but that Person is Jesus Christ, acting in the world through the Holy Spirit, not some single human agent and the body of Christ has many members in all its expressions.
It doesn't mean we will always have good Popes, but we have very few bad ones outof 266.

Well, I've already given a few examples of very bad popes, including the notorious Medici and Borgia pontiffs, and those alone make a mockery of the idea of unbroken apostolic succession guided by the Holy Spirit. If the Spirit is a member of the triune Godhead and therefore omniscient, it follows that he would not allow such degenerates and apostates (for their vile immorality alone) to be appointed to lead his church on earth. There's a verse somewhere in the New Testament which declares, "God is not mocked". Quite so.

Still and all, and these arguments apart, the stark fact is - and from your own observations - you are facing a potentially very serious division in your church.

Perhaps I should add on a personal note and as one who takes a fairly conservative line theologically that I actually deplore much about the present pope and his grinning closet liberal, anti-capitalist, neo-liberation theology twaddle.
"The wiles of dissembling fate afford us the illusion of freedom, yet in the end always lead us into the same trap."
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Re: The Catholic Church today

Postby Pondero » January 29th, 2016, 6:02 pm

I am not going to debate the rightness or wrongness of my view that the Roman Catholic Church is the true Church of Christ established by Him. The words of Jesus. "Tu es Petros....." Indicate that Peter ( and his successors ) are the representatives of Christ on earth. But.that doesn't mean they are sinless.
I want to concentrate here on our present Pope who is confusing many Cathoics with his contradictory teachings.
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Re: The Catholic Church today

Postby GregB » January 29th, 2016, 6:21 pm

All right, but for now let me just come back to you on two points.
The words of Jesus. "Tu es Petros....." Indicate that Peter ( and his successors ) are the representatives of Christ on earth.

Unlike many Protestants, I accept that the quoted verse meant that Christ appointed Peter to a special role in the early church, though there is nothing in the text to indicate that this special role extended beyond Peter himself once the church had been established (and St. Paul played a much greater part in that process than Peter ever did.). And all members of the church are Christ's representatives on earth as members of the same body.
But.that doesn't mean they are sinless

No human being is sinless but one might expect more from Christ's appointed vicar on earth than some of the vile individuals who have occupied that office.

Still, it seems you're quite happy with that regardless, so I'll leave it there and let you get on with the problems of the present pope. (Pardon the flippancy, but it looks as if the Holy Spirit has backed the wrong horse again...)
"The wiles of dissembling fate afford us the illusion of freedom, yet in the end always lead us into the same trap."
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Re: The Catholic Church today

Postby Pondero » January 29th, 2016, 6:32 pm

My wife would agree with your final remarks Greg..She finds it more disturbing than I do.
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