Ideas about God and Evolution

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Re: Ideas about God and Evolution

Postby Lyn » November 7th, 2016, 2:20 pm

Doesn't everyone have 'problems' in one way or another, at times?

If Nicholas has 'problems', he is certainly not the only one (& I am not meaning SJ, just because she posted immediately above me).

He has made a great difference to this forum, before he came there was very little talked about.

At least he isn't insulting, doesn't lie about fellow posters or try to wriggle out of things.

Not everyone's cup of tea, granted, but no-one has to engage.

Eccentricity is no crime, the British are famous for eccentrics. Anyone who remembers Stanley Green, the 'Protein Man', who frequented the Oxford Circus area of central London for many years will agree with that, and he was just one.
I like that sort of thing, if others don't there's nothing to stop them ignoring.

We can talk about Clint and Trumpton, the weather or play games, the last of which I am going to do in a minute.

(Edited because I left a sentence unfinished.)
Last edited by Lyn on November 7th, 2016, 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ideas about God and Evolution

Postby NicholasMarks » November 7th, 2016, 4:18 pm

Sarniajoy wrote:
NicholasMarks wrote:All...

Everyone's suddenly become a psychoanalyst. The best and most accurate of them all...in fact ...if we look at the same strategy adopted by the Catholic Church, Freud and the Samaritans, honestly, we will find that they all take their lead from, Jesus Christ.

In prayer and dialogue with Jesus we are trained to be more perceptive...to have an acute , agile, kinder, forgiving, mind, whilst you lot seem to want to slash and burn any righteous statement because you are neglectful in upbuilding your own righteous spirit.

Following Jesus accurately can lift you out of the trauma of deceit which, in this day and age, we are all drowning in, and Jesus' righteous word will allow you to breathe purified air whilst the powers you believe in are stifling you...except of course the followers of Jesus' accurate word.


NM your posts are so weird they do beg the question as to whether you have mental health problems, or are a wind up merchant. I think you have problems.



It is a well known technique to besmirch and ridicule those who you want to squash in a debate Sarniajoy...Hitlers gangs also did a lot of it...but the point here is that if you had adjusted to righteous teaching even you would be be more able to stick to intellectual debate rather than resort to unpleasantness. The fact that the Holy Bible is totally lost on you is your fault and your fault alone...contrary to millions who have gone before you...of whom, I am just one.

I have had a little insight which states positively that Jesus Christ is talking about the electric/spiritual nature of the universe...of which we all have a stake whilst we have life...when we die we rely on either being reborn into a new vessel and a new generation because this is the reward of following Jesus, accurately, else we are retained in the electric pit around the Earth until God's Judgement sees fit to release us...then we have a generation to either follow Jesus or prepare for an eternity aboard a fiery lake of sulphur...according to the Holy Bible...You have made your decision and that is fine by me...but I have made mine as well and have realised that the science that all scientists yearn to achieve is staring us all in the face and is written into the Holy Bible and the many millions influenced by its teaching since Jesus proves that it is repeatable over and over again.

Part of the deal of those who feel they have a message to convey concerning Jesus is to express that message but expect it to be ridiculed and besmirched just as Jesus was...because everyone doesn't want the things that righteousness offers and that is sad...very sad.
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Re: Ideas about God and Evolution

Postby Lyn » November 7th, 2016, 4:42 pm

I don't think Sarnia intended to besmirch you, NM. It's just her way (she's told me to keep taking the tablets in the past). She's also called herself "Loony tunes". So don't take it to heart.
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Re: Ideas about God and Evolution

Postby Sarniajoy » November 7th, 2016, 4:48 pm

NicholasMarks wrote:
Sarniajoy wrote:
NicholasMarks wrote:All...

Everyone's suddenly become a psychoanalyst. The best and most accurate of them all...in fact ...if we look at the same strategy adopted by the Catholic Church, Freud and the Samaritans, honestly, we will find that they all take their lead from, Jesus Christ.

In prayer and dialogue with Jesus we are trained to be more perceptive...to have an acute , agile, kinder, forgiving, mind, whilst you lot seem to want to slash and burn any righteous statement because you are neglectful in upbuilding your own righteous spirit.

Following Jesus accurately can lift you out of the trauma of deceit which, in this day and age, we are all drowning in, and Jesus' righteous word will allow you to breathe purified air whilst the powers you believe in are stifling you...except of course the followers of Jesus' accurate word.


NM your posts are so weird they do beg the question as to whether you have mental health problems, or are a wind up merchant. I think you have problems.



It is a well known technique to besmirch and ridicule those who you want to squash in a debate Sarniajoy...Hitlers gangs also did a lot of it...but the point here is that if you had adjusted to righteous teaching even you would be be more able to stick to intellectual debate rather than resort to unpleasantness. The fact that the Holy Bible is totally lost on you is your fault and your fault alone...contrary to millions who have gone before you...of whom, I am just one.

I have had a little insight which states positively that Jesus Christ is talking about the electric/spiritual nature of the universe...of which we all have a stake whilst we have life...when we die we rely on either being reborn into a new vessel and a new generation because this is the reward of following Jesus, accurately, else we are retained in the electric pit around the Earth until God's Judgement sees fit to release us...then we have a generation to either follow Jesus or prepare for an eternity aboard a fiery lake of sulphur...according to the Holy Bible...You have made your decision and that is fine by me...but I have made mine as well and have realised that the science that all scientists yearn to achieve is staring us all in the face and is written into the Holy Bible and the many millions influenced by its teaching since Jesus proves that it is repeatable over and over again.

Part of the deal of those who feel they have a message to convey concerning Jesus is to express that message but expect it to be ridiculed and besmirched just as Jesus was...because everyone doesn't want the things that righteousness offers and that is sad...very sad.


NM your interpretation of what Jesus is supposed to have said is OTT and then some. I bet the man himself, if he was around today, wouldn't know what the heck you are on about!
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Re: Ideas about God and Evolution

Postby NicholasMarks » November 7th, 2016, 5:29 pm

Sarniajoy...


NM your interpretation of what Jesus is supposed to have said is OTT and then some. I bet the man himself, if he was around today, wouldn't know what the heck you are on about!


You are so wrong in so many ways Sarniajoy...First of all Jesus is still around today. His word for starters is still around but just as importantly, so is Jesus...sitting at the right hand of his father...waiting for the time when he will reveal himself. He is probably very busy dealing with Heavenly business as well at the moment and especially as in his fathers house there are many mansions he is dealing with, of which, planet Earth, is just another. Remember the Drake Equation which indicates there may be many life supporting mansions in the universe...you know...the universe that Almighty God owns and who Jesus also rules over as part of its deity.

I'll say it again Sarniajoy because you obviously misheard...The accurate teaching of Jesus Christ is what Jesus taught...I rather fancy that Jesus understood what he meant and the millions who follow/ed him since try and grasp that teaching because they know it is of vital importance...me too...but like so many others also claim...I have had a glimpse of that accuracy...mainly because I tried to follow his teaching as accurately as I could...I can also tell you that the last days are unfolding now and only the foolish will ignore Jesus because it is a science and, thereby, it is our spiritual ability to resist violent electrical storms that will deliver our salvation.
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Re: Ideas about God and Evolution

Postby Val » November 7th, 2016, 6:55 pm

Pondero wrote:Well, perhaps ironic , which to me would be funny in the circumstances as most of the evolutionary scientists do not believe in a supreme intelligence,.
Mendel died in the late 19th century, and it is my bet that he didn't believe in Darwin's theory of evolution. He was after all an abbot of an Augustinian monastery in Brno.


This post was not responded to earlier so I repost to see if Leslie will reply


Well you may be wrong Leslie, because Mendel studied physics at the University of Vienna under Doppler (a very famous name) and botany under Palaeontologist an Botanist Professor Franz Unger who wrote much on the possibility of evolution and proposed it before Darwin, so Mendel was well versed in the possibility, Mendel most likely joined the religious order to further his education for free, that plus he had little interest in women.


So Leslie what about you?
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Re: Ideas about God and Evolution

Postby Val » November 7th, 2016, 6:59 pm

Pondero wrote:

http://www.arn.org/docs/mm/flagellum_all.htm

Now, please give me a refutation in detail about what is contained above.



Stephen did and I just did that but you never read anything that shows you are wrong, but just in case you might read the following and especially for you I will copy and paste in more detail.




http://www.abc.net.au/

Evidence for evolution, not creation

http://www.abc.net.au/science/indepth/i ... agella.jpg

Bacteria swim in many different ways, and the motors that drive their swimming are widely varied, implying an adaptive response to an environment — a hallmark of evolution. So while the flagellar motor of freshwater Salmonella is powered by protons (hydrogen ions, H+), motors of other bacteria that live in salt water environments, like Vibrio alginolyticus are powered by sodium ions (Na+) from the salty environs.
There's also considerable variety in propeller shape across different bacterial species — propellers can be straight or curly, left- or right-handed, and more or less rigid. In fact, genetic sequencing of the proteins that make up the propellers has shown that there must be thousands of different bacterial flagellar systems.
In the aftermath of the first legal challenges to curriculum requirements to teach intelligent design, evolutionary biologists Mark Pallen and Nicholas Matzke wrote "either there were thousands or millions of individual creation events ... or one has to accept that the highly diverse contemporary flagellar systems have evolved from a common ancestor".
Recent work on flagellar motors in species other than bacteria, such as single-celled archaea, show they also swim by a rotary motor, but one that is completely unrelated to the bacterial motors. The archaeal motors sometimes use a completely different power source (ATP hydrolysis), and their propeller grows from the base, instead of from the tip. This indicates that convergent evolution has taken place: two completely separate evolutionary paths have converged towards rotary powered swimming.
While all this may seem relatively harmless, the intelligent design movement is well funded, slickly presented, and actively challenges educational curricula in many countries. It is a dangerously well-articulated distraction from the large body of evidence supporting evolutionary theory.
Scientists studying the flagellar motor can contribute by demonstrating that it is clearly not a smoking gun that proves intelligent design.
Typically, intelligent design proponents persevere despite this evidence. They simply adjust their goal posts by selecting other systems to act as poster boys for irreducible complexity. It is difficult to respond to these movable challenges. But as we learn more about the origins of these and other complex systems, we can at least reduce the number of available candidates used to prop up the theory of intelligent design.
And we most certainly will learn more about the flagellar motor — some of the most exciting work explaining exactly how it has arisen is yet to be done. It still has much to contribute, not only to our understanding of the wonders of natural technology, but also to teach us how we can adapt its natural technology to make bespoke bionanotechnology in the next era.
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Re: Ideas about God and Evolution

Postby NicholasMarks » November 7th, 2016, 7:46 pm

Val wrote:
Pondero wrote:

http://www.arn.org/docs/mm/flagellum_all.htm

Now, please give me a refutation in detail about what is contained above.



Stephen did and I just did that but you never read anything that shows you are wrong, but just in case you might read the following and especially for you I will copy and paste in more detail.




http://www.abc.net.au/

Evidence for evolution, not creation

http://www.abc.net.au/science/indepth/i ... agella.jpg

Bacteria swim in many different ways, and the motors that drive their swimming are widely varied, implying an adaptive response to an environment — a hallmark of evolution. So while the flagellar motor of freshwater Salmonella is powered by protons (hydrogen ions, H+), motors of other bacteria that live in salt water environments, like Vibrio alginolyticus are powered by sodium ions (Na+) from the salty environs.
There's also considerable variety in propeller shape across different bacterial species — propellers can be straight or curly, left- or right-handed, and more or less rigid. In fact, genetic sequencing of the proteins that make up the propellers has shown that there must be thousands of different bacterial flagellar systems.
In the aftermath of the first legal challenges to curriculum requirements to teach intelligent design, evolutionary biologists Mark Pallen and Nicholas Matzke wrote "either there were thousands or millions of individual creation events ... or one has to accept that the highly diverse contemporary flagellar systems have evolved from a common ancestor".
Recent work on flagellar motors in species other than bacteria, such as single-celled archaea, show they also swim by a rotary motor, but one that is completely unrelated to the bacterial motors. The archaeal motors sometimes use a completely different power source (ATP hydrolysis), and their propeller grows from the base, instead of from the tip. This indicates that convergent evolution has taken place: two completely separate evolutionary paths have converged towards rotary powered swimming.
While all this may seem relatively harmless, the intelligent design movement is well funded, slickly presented, and actively challenges educational curricula in many countries. It is a dangerously well-articulated distraction from the large body of evidence supporting evolutionary theory.
Scientists studying the flagellar motor can contribute by demonstrating that it is clearly not a smoking gun that proves intelligent design.
Typically, intelligent design proponents persevere despite this evidence. They simply adjust their goal posts by selecting other systems to act as poster boys for irreducible complexity. It is difficult to respond to these movable challenges. But as we learn more about the origins of these and other complex systems, we can at least reduce the number of available candidates used to prop up the theory of intelligent design.
And we most certainly will learn more about the flagellar motor — some of the most exciting work explaining exactly how it has arisen is yet to be done. It still has much to contribute, not only to our understanding of the wonders of natural technology, but also to teach us how we can adapt its natural technology to make bespoke bionanotechnology in the next era.


The problem with your post here, Val, and the scientists who want to deny Almighty God by ignoring the Holy Bible is this...The owner of the universe...Almighty God...is himself the embodiment of all the electric laws that science, evolution, and intelligent design, all need to exist by. If God made every single star in the sky he did it by one method and one method alone...he did it because the laws of the universe must respond to the decisions God makes...this is the peculiar relationship God has with all the living energy that creates all life. He is a pure living limb of all this energy...he speaks on its behalf...he has total scientific knowledge and control over it ...and Jesus Christ taught us how to harness it so that we can benefit from it too.

Now read the Holy Bible again only this time see your God as the exact spiritual being described within it...responsible for all laws whether evolutionary or special design and know also that Jesus delivered the bare-bones of God's righteous science knowing exactly what would happen to him, but did it anyway...and even though he knew he would be resurrected we know that he was in great fear because the night before, he was sweating blood. Sarniajoy should consider this when she mocks Jesus.
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Re: Ideas about God and Evolution

Postby Pondero » November 7th, 2016, 8:13 pm

Val wrote:
Pondero wrote:Well, perhaps ironic , which to me would be funny in the circumstances as most of the evolutionary scientists do not believe in a supreme intelligence,.
Mendel died in the late 19th century, and it is my bet that he didn't believe in Darwin's theory of evolution. He was after all an abbot of an Augustinian monastery in Brno.


This post was not responded to earlier so I repost to see if Leslie will reply


Well you may be wrong Leslie, because Mendel studied physics at the University of Vienna under Doppler (a very famous name) and botany under Palaeontologist an Botanist Professor Franz Unger who wrote much on the possibility of evolution and proposed it before Darwin, so Mendel was well versed in the possibility, Mendel most likely joined the religious order to further his education for free, that plus he had little interest in women.


So Leslie what about you?[/quote ]
Lyn asked me what was so funny, so I told her.
I know Mendel would not leave God out of his answer, whatever it would be.
When you say what about me? What exactly are you asking. I m guessing here, No I did not get my education in Canada free, I paid for every penny of it, and no I did not join a religious order at any time in my life, and I have the normal sex urges of a male and I like women. My parents sent me to work as a clerk in an office at the age of 16, that was in England of course.
What else would you like to know?
If your mind is your brain and your brain is just material , would you rely on it?
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Re: Ideas about God and Evolution

Postby Theophilus » November 8th, 2016, 12:26 am

Pondero wrote:It is difficult to determine whether NM has a mental problem as outlined by Theo, or whether he is just having us on.


Whilst I described a mental problem, I did not say that NM suffers from it. That would only be true if the opinions he espouses ruled his life outside the online world. I can never do this, and actually doubt it. The thing about the Internet is that any opinion or belief, no matter how ridiculous, untenable or niche can be expressed on an equal platform with well-established and evidenced theories. Anyone can "try out" some weird and outlandish belief on an online forum, chat room etc, under a degree of anonymity, and real people from all over the world actually respond! Sometimes they even take it seriously! Even if a belief, or the holder of the belief, is ridiculed and insulted, they can still receive a greater amount of attention than they would in real life. That can be addictive.

Even online, you're not going to get attention everywhere. That's why smaller or more inactive forums sometimes attract the more attention-seeking of monopaths. They're the only place they can get their voice heard and the attention they desire. If someone truly believed they held some all-encompassing belief that seemingly no one else holds, and moreover that belief was the only thing able to save mankind from destruction, you'd not be wasting your time on an inactive forum: you'd be risking face-to-face ridicule in the real world like Stanley Green Vix mentioned up-thread. As I said, I doubt NM is a local-celebrity in his own hometown, well-known for his unique take on science, genetics and the Bible. He prefers the relative safety of expressing his views online and the "safe" attention he receives, even if it is sometimes rude.

That's fair enough, but the trade off is that his views are unlikely to be taken seriously. He cannot be compared with Jesus Christ or His Apostles - who courageously gave up their lives for what they believed in - regardless of how much NM wishes to identify with them.
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