What is the difference........

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What is the difference........

Postby Sarniajoy » November 7th, 2016, 11:22 am

.........between so called 'prophecy' and fortune telling? Some Christians will condemn those who seek out fortune tellers to predict their future, but believe those who claim to make future predictions or prophecies in the name of the Biblical god. Most of the prophecies in the Bible are as clear as mud and can be predicted any which way!
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Re: What is the difference........

Postby Pondero » November 7th, 2016, 11:47 am

Sarniajoy wrote:.........between so called 'prophecy' and fortune telling? Some Christians will condemn those who seek out fortune tellers to predict their future, but believe those who claim to make future predictions or prophecies in the name of the Biblical god. Most of the prophecies in the Bible are as clear as mud and can be predicted any which way!


The Catholic Church teaches that you are dealing with the devil when you play with Ouza boards or visit fortune tellers or in others ways involve yourself with the occult. It is possible to be possessed by the devil when you engage in this sort of thing. Exorcisms in America are on the rise, there are more priests trained to deal with possession , than formerly.

As for religious prophecies you are free to believe in them or not believe in them.
“ignorance of the fact that man has a wounded nature inclined to evil gives rise to serious errors in the areas of education, politics, social action, and morals” (#407).
Catechism of the Catholic Church.
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Re: What is the difference........

Postby Sarniajoy » November 7th, 2016, 12:08 pm

Pondero wrote:
Sarniajoy wrote:.........between so called 'prophecy' and fortune telling? Some Christians will condemn those who seek out fortune tellers to predict their future, but believe those who claim to make future predictions or prophecies in the name of the Biblical god. Most of the prophecies in the Bible are as clear as mud and can be predicted any which way!


The Catholic Church teaches that you are dealing with the devil when you play with Ouza boards or visit fortune tellers or in others ways involve yourself with the occult. It is possible to be possessed by the devil when you engage in this sort of thing. Exorcisms in America are on the rise, there are more priests trained to deal with possession , than formerly.

As for religious prophecies you are free to believe in them or not believe in them.


Well I don't see it their way, thank goodness. Exorcism is no different to the things the RCC condemn!
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Re: What is the difference........

Postby Val » November 7th, 2016, 12:19 pm

Pondero wrote:
The Catholic Church teaches that you are dealing with the devil when you play with Ouza boards or visit fortune tellers or in others ways involve yourself with the occult. It is possible to be possessed by the devil when you engage in this sort of thing. Exorcisms in America are on the rise, there are more priests trained to deal with possession , than formerly.

As for religious prophecies you are free to believe in them or not believe in them.


Possession, Exorcisms the Devil and Ouija all on a short sentence, that would make you seriously worry about the future of our young who are reading and listening to such twaddle.

We are not living in the dark ages, where seriously mentally ill people in shrouds cast out demons and devils from seriously deranged individuals for money or indulgences, we live in a modern age filled with man-made technology using devices to peer into the depths of space and deep inside our bodies, we’ve managed to put a human on the moon and return him safely to the earth, we are now capable of 3D printing biological tissue and organs and creating bionics to aid our fellow humans born with infirmities or injured through accidents etc.

This type of religious quackery and mumbo-jumbo belongs in the far distant past; it has stifled our human growth for generations holding the ignorant in its clutches with the fear of hellfire/damnation and demons, devils etc. but enough is enough, free your minds of all such rubbish and enjoy the life you were born with as it will pass all too soon.
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Re: What is the difference........

Postby Pondero » November 7th, 2016, 12:52 pm

You can pooh hoo it all you like Val, but I think differently.
The Catholic Church insists that you believe as a Catholic all that is contained in the Apostles Creed, and that you believe the dogma of the Immaculate Conception (1854) , the dogma of papal infallibility (1870) anfd the dogma of the Assumption(1950).
Wikipedia has something to say about exorcisms here:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exorcis ... lic_Church
“ignorance of the fact that man has a wounded nature inclined to evil gives rise to serious errors in the areas of education, politics, social action, and morals” (#407).
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Re: What is the difference........

Postby Sarniajoy » November 7th, 2016, 1:28 pm

It is about time the RCC and other Christians denominations believing in demonic possession arrived in the 21st century! Jesus and his peers knew no better, we do!
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Re: What is the difference........

Postby Lyn » November 7th, 2016, 2:41 pm

Edited to add bits and reposted.
Last edited by Lyn on November 8th, 2016, 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is the difference........

Postby Theophilus » November 8th, 2016, 12:46 am

Prophecy is when people are given forewarning of what is to come, and it usually is intended (by God) as a means for a person or group of people to change for the better. This is seen most often in the Old Testament, where the prophets warn Israel to turn from the self-destructive path they are on or else face the consequences. The trouble is, very often Israel didn't do that and ended up going through some very bad times. That said, there is one example of a prophecy that didn't "come true": that of Jonah who was sent to Nineveh by God to warn them that they must repent. Because they did repent, the city did not suffer the "promised" destruction. Jonah was upset about it! But that's another story and God corrected him in his error.

Fortune-telling is just predicting the future as though it is per-determined and cannot be changed. I would assume that almost all fortune-tellers would say their ability to predict the future comes from their own powers or techniques and none of it is from God, or any god. Their approach to fortune-telling is psuedo-scientific because whether they use tea-leaves or Tarot cards they believe that by following a certain method plus their own special abilities they can predict the future. It is about using, controlling and manipulating the natural world - a form of "magic". That is not to say I believe fortune-tellers and clairvoyants can do what they claim, but that this is their own understanding of the concept.

The Prophets of the Old Testament and the Christian Church would not, and have not, characterize their prophecy in the same way. Their prophecy is not a special power or skill, but a gift from God - neither merited or earned. Any person at any time could be given a prophecy from God - it's not a career choice or way of making money.

So lots of differences really.
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Re: What is the difference........

Postby Sarniajoy » November 8th, 2016, 8:26 am

Theophilus wrote:Prophecy is when people are given forewarning of what is to come, and it usually is intended (by God) as a means for a person or group of people to change for the better. This is seen most often in the Old Testament, where the prophets warn Israel to turn from the self-destructive path they are on or else face the consequences. The trouble is, very often Israel didn't do that and ended up going through some very bad times. That said, there is one example of a prophecy that didn't "come true": that of Jonah who was sent to Nineveh by God to warn them that they must repent. Because they did repent, the city did not suffer the "promised" destruction. Jonah was upset about it! But that's another story and God corrected him in his error.

Fortune-telling is just predicting the future as though it is per-determined and cannot be changed. I would assume that almost all fortune-tellers would say their ability to predict the future comes from their own powers or techniques and none of it is from God, or any god. Their approach to fortune-telling is psuedo-scientific because whether they use tea-leaves or Tarot cards they believe that by following a certain method plus their own special abilities they can predict the future. It is about using, controlling and manipulating the natural world - a form of "magic". That is not to say I believe fortune-tellers and clairvoyants can do what they claim, but that this is their own understanding of the concept.

The Prophets of the Old Testament and the Christian Church would not, and have not, characterize their prophecy in the same way. Their prophecy is not a special power or skill, but a gift from God - neither merited or earned. Any person at any time could be given a prophecy from God - it's not a career choice or way of making money.

So lots of differences really.


So called prophecy is a load of silly garbage, which has nothing to do with any god, even if one exists in some realm somewhere. Remember that charlatan Harold Campion and the idiots who believed his end of the world nonsense?
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Re: What is the difference........

Postby Lyn » November 8th, 2016, 9:39 am

Nice to have a discussion about evil spirits! I don't know much about prophecy or fortune telling. Some things can be predicted on the basis of probability, we all do that. I wouldn't trust a 'fortune teller', even if they got some things right. Biblical prophets are a different matter altogether, maybe some people do have the gift nowadays but we are right to be sceptical. I like the way this discussion has moved on to evil spirits and deliverance from them.

This subject is sort of being discussed, not precisely exorcism or prophecy but evil spirits etc, on R&E atm, following Halloween, also a thread on the Faith Sharing section about Paganism/Witchcraft which is immensely interesting (to some anyway).

I saw an exorcism, a real one, on TV once. I was scared to watch it but then decided I would and that I'd turn it off if I was too terrified.

It was unbelievably low key. The minister (exorcist) said a prayer, put his hands on the sick person and that was it. All over in a minute or two. The subject felt much better afterwards.

It wasn't anything like the sort of sensationalist exorcism horror stories/films are made of, nor those we hear about that happen in churches frequented by people from some other countries (thank goodness).

I'm not saying it was right or wrong but if it made a person feel better, it did no harm.

The Mental Health services, with all their mind altering drugs, often do more harm than good.

'Apparitions', a BBC1 series about eight years ago starring Martin Shaw as a priest was good and showed the Catholic Church's role in exorcism nowadays.

'Midwinter of the Spirit' on ITV with Anna Maxwell-Martin as a vicar/exorcist has been very well reviewed, I have it on dvd but my dvd player has gone wrong. I have the book too, by Phil Rickman (part of a series I understand), must get round to reading it. Might start this afternoon.

There has recently been a drama series on ITV called 'Him' which concerned a boy/young man who had special powers, which caused him a lot of grief until he came to accept himself. Nothing sensationalist about the programme, it was very good, moving in parts and well acted. I recommend it.
Lyn

Exorcism is called "Deliverance Ministry" now, has been so for some time.
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