The elusive 'truth'

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Re: The elusive 'truth'

Postby Lyn » November 16th, 2016, 8:58 am

Oh snap, I just googled and found this in Blue Bible.

(as you have quoted above) "When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, "He is out of his mind" (Mark 3:21)."

It is possible that it was Jesus family, and not the crowd, that thought that Jesus was deluded. We find His family attempting to speak to Him.

"Then Jesus' mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, "Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you." "Who are my mother and my brothers?" he asked. Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother" (Mark 3:31-34)."

There is also John 7.:5

So I suppose it is that Sj is talking about.
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Re: The elusive 'truth'

Postby GregB » November 16th, 2016, 9:10 am

I've checked Mark 3:20-21 in the Revised Standard Version, which renders it thus:

20 and the crowd came together again, so that they could not even eat. 21 And when his family heard it, they went out to seize him, for people were saying, “He is beside himself.”

That clearly suggests that it was the bystanders who made the statement and not Jesus' family. The "they were saying" in the NIV (and KJV too) is clearly ambiguous.

John 7:5 is more about Jesus' brothers doubting his powers or teachings rather than his mental state. (Notice his mother is not included here.)
"The wiles of dissembling fate afford us the illusion of freedom, yet in the end always lead us into the same trap."
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Re: The elusive 'truth'

Postby Lyn » November 16th, 2016, 9:30 am

Yes, it was nothing about parents but brethren and the translation you have just given puts a different slant on it.

However that is probably what Sj meant.

Doesn't mean they didn't love him though.
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Re: The elusive 'truth'

Postby gone » November 16th, 2016, 10:48 am

It doesn't appear the family of Jesus were included in his inner circle, or saw him as the Messiah. I bet if one of our relatives claimed they were some sort of god we would urge them to seek psychiatric assistance.
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Re: The elusive 'truth'

Postby Lyn » November 16th, 2016, 12:04 pm

His mother did, Sj, and Joseph did when he was boy but we hear little about Joseph later on. His mother's cousin, Elizabeth, her husband and her son, John the Baptist were involved.

I don't know how many more relatives you want listed, they all had their own lives to live after all.
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Re: The elusive 'truth'

Postby Pondero » November 16th, 2016, 12:22 pm

Greetings fellow earthlings, I notice that you write about Jesus's brothers as if he had any brothers in the sense in which we talk about brothers today. The fact that he had brothers is a Protestant understanding of the scriptures and not a Catholic one or dare I say ( as I am no expert on Orthodoxy) - an Orthodox church one.
Occasionally, at All Saints Catholic Church in Etobicoke we are blessed by the priest who fills in when the parish priest is absent. He is father Antion and he really looks after the French Church in Toronto. ( wherever that is).
He would say that brothers, cousins, sisters and all the words we use today did not have the same meaning at the time of Jesus. Brothers for example is used in the sense in which a union member ( and I should know having been involved with unions most of my life) addresses his colleagues as brothers and sisters.
Now Fr. Antion ( sp) was born and brought up in Lebanon where they speak Arabic and he does know French and English very well too. His sermons are a joy to listen to as he takes you back to the times of Jesus in a interesting and I believe a very authentic way, due to his knowledge and life a spent in Lebanon.
We live at a time ...characterized by a subliminal relativism that penetrates every area of life. Sometimes this relativism becomes aggressive, when it opposes those who say that they know where the truth or meaning of life is to be found. Benedict XV1.
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Re: The elusive 'truth'

Postby Lyn » November 16th, 2016, 1:12 pm

I believe 'brethren' is a more appropriate word and agree that 'brother(s)' has a different meaning - or may have a different meaning - as used in the Bible.
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Re: The elusive 'truth'

Postby gone » November 16th, 2016, 4:48 pm

These verses from the gospel of Mark are rather telling about Jesus' relationship with his family, including his Mother!

31 Then His brothers and His mother came, and standing outside they sent to Him, calling Him. 32 And a multitude was sitting around Him; and they said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers[e] are outside seeking You.”
33 But He answered them, saying, “Who is My mother, or My brothers?” 34 And He looked around in a circle at those who sat about Him, and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! 35 For whoever does the will of God is My brother and My sister and mother.”
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Re: The elusive 'truth'

Postby Theophilus » November 16th, 2016, 5:18 pm

Sarniajoy wrote:These verses from the gospel of Mark are rather telling about Jesus' relationship with his family, including his Mother!

31 Then His brothers and His mother came, and standing outside they sent to Him, calling Him. 32 And a multitude was sitting around Him; and they said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers[e] are outside seeking You.”
33 But He answered them, saying, “Who is My mother, or My brothers?” 34 And He looked around in a circle at those who sat about Him, and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! 35 For whoever does the will of God is My brother and My sister and mother.”


This is rather telling about Jesus' relationship with His disciples (and by extension His disciples today) as opposed to His relationship with His family. To understand it the wrong way round just shows how reading the Bible by itself does not necessarily lead to a better understanding of Christ or Christianity.

There are plenty of other verses that better describe the true depth and nature of Jesus' relationship with His family. To sum up: close with Joseph and Mary (given the miracles they experienced before and immediately after His birth, this is unsurprising); initially less close with His cousins/step -brothers, but some (Jude and James) came to understand Him and love Him (to the point of death) belatedly.
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Re: The elusive 'truth'

Postby gone » November 16th, 2016, 5:48 pm

We don't know what sort of relationship Jesus had with his father, Joseph. Apart from the conception, birth and bad behaviour of Jesus at the age of 12, Joseph is not mentioned again.
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