Did Jesus exist?

For discussions about Christianity, from any point of view.
Forum rules
For discussions about Christianity, from any point of view. Christians and those of any other faith or of none are equally welcome, provided they treat others with respect at all times.

Re: Did Jesus exist?

Postby Sprocket » June 24th, 2017, 8:45 pm

Sarniajoy wrote:The guy might have been crucified, because he was a pain in the backside, but the gospels accounts of are pure fantasy, when describing things attributed to Jesus, which aren't credible, like the resurrection, imo.

Your usual attempt to shock the grown-ups, has, as usual, failed, because the rest of us are grown-ups. As Greg pointed out, whether Jesus said all the things attributed to him is immaterial, because someone said them, and their value is in what was said, not who said it. As for the resurrection - so you don't believe in it. Well, big deal - neither do the majority of the UK population probably, but most of them don't imagine that they are being daringly iconoclastic in not so believing. It would be nice, incidentally, if you occasionally offered evidence or arguments for your beliefs, rather than bald statements of the "I think this, I don't think that" variety.
Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason.
Sir John Harington (1561-1620)
User avatar
Sprocket
 
Posts: 15954
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:21 am
Location: Hemel Hempstead, Herts.

Re: Did Jesus exist?

Postby Lyn » June 24th, 2017, 10:23 pm

I think so too Sprocket.
Lyn
 
Posts: 47604
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:25 am

Re: Did Jesus exist?

Postby gone » June 25th, 2017, 7:51 am

Sprocket wrote:
Sarniajoy wrote:The guy might have been crucified, because he was a pain in the backside, but the gospels accounts of are pure fantasy, when describing things attributed to Jesus, which aren't credible, like the resurrection, imo.

Your usual attempt to shock the grown-ups, has, as usual, failed, because the rest of us are grown-ups. As Greg pointed out, whether Jesus said all the things attributed to him is immaterial, because someone said them, and their value is in what was said, not who said it. As for the resurrection - so you don't believe in it. Well, big deal - neither do the majority of the UK population probably, but most of them don't imagine that they are being daringly iconoclastic in not so believing. It would be nice, incidentally, if you occasionally offered evidence or arguments for your beliefs, rather than bald statements of the "I think this, I don't think that" variety.


I am not trying to shock anyone, I just state my POV. If people don't like it, they can ignore my posts, it makes not the slightest difference to me.
gone
 
Posts: 1243
Joined: September 28th, 2009, 1:17 pm

Re: Did Jesus exist?

Postby Pondero » June 25th, 2017, 10:04 am

It takes nerve for Sarniajoy to tell Theo that he has no evidence to support his assertion that Jesus lives and yet at the same time offer no evidence at all for the opinions she has on any topic.
We don't live in a vacuum and each opinion unsupported annoys other people who think otherwise and do have the evidence to support their opinion.
That in a nutshell is what is wrong with Sarniajoy's method of communication.
We live at a time ...characterized by a subliminal relativism that penetrates every area of life. Sometimes this relativism becomes aggressive, when it opposes those who say that they know where the truth or meaning of life is to be found. Benedict XV1.
User avatar
Pondero
 
Posts: 12543
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:03 am
Location: Etobicoke,Ontario, Canada

Re: Did Jesus exist?

Postby gone » June 25th, 2017, 10:50 am

Pondero wrote:It takes nerve for Sarniajoy to tell Theo that he has no evidence to support his assertion that Jesus lives and yet at the same time offer no evidence at all for the opinions she has on any topic.
We don't live in a vacuum and each opinion unsupported annoys other people who think otherwise and do have the evidence to support their opinion.
That in a nutshell is what is wrong with Sarniajoy's method of communication.


There is no evidence to support the fanciful claims attributed to Jesus, even if the guy existed.
gone
 
Posts: 1243
Joined: September 28th, 2009, 1:17 pm

Re: Did Jesus exist?

Postby Pondero » June 25th, 2017, 11:06 am

Sarniajoy wrote:
Pondero wrote:It takes nerve for Sarniajoy to tell Theo that he has no evidence to support his assertion that Jesus lives and yet at the same time offer no evidence at all for the opinions she has on any topic.
We don't live in a vacuum and each opinion unsupported annoys other people who think otherwise and do have the evidence to support their opinion.
That in a nutshell is what is wrong with Sarniajoy's method of communication.


There is no evidence to support the fanciful claims attributed to Jesus, even if the guy existed.


Yes, there is: it is called historical evidence
We live at a time ...characterized by a subliminal relativism that penetrates every area of life. Sometimes this relativism becomes aggressive, when it opposes those who say that they know where the truth or meaning of life is to be found. Benedict XV1.
User avatar
Pondero
 
Posts: 12543
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:03 am
Location: Etobicoke,Ontario, Canada

Re: Did Jesus exist?

Postby gone » June 26th, 2017, 9:42 am

Pondero wrote:
Sarniajoy wrote:
Pondero wrote:It takes nerve for Sarniajoy to tell Theo that he has no evidence to support his assertion that Jesus lives and yet at the same time offer no evidence at all for the opinions she has on any topic.
We don't live in a vacuum and each opinion unsupported annoys other people who think otherwise and do have the evidence to support their opinion.
That in a nutshell is what is wrong with Sarniajoy's method of communication.


There is no evidence to support the fanciful claims attributed to Jesus, even if the guy existed.


Yes, there is: it is called historical evidence


An what do you mean by historical? The gospels can't be classified as historical, especially as they were written years after Jesus was dead, based on hearsay and imagination.
gone
 
Posts: 1243
Joined: September 28th, 2009, 1:17 pm

Re: Did Jesus exist?

Postby GregB » June 26th, 2017, 12:11 pm

Historical evidence? There is little hard historical evidence for the nature of the Peloponnesian Wars in the famous account of the Athenian historian Thucydides or the existence of Socrates beyond the dialogues of Plato, which essentially could have been as invented as Cervantes' 'Don Quijote'. However, these accounts are accepted by most of the intelligentsia as truthful, despite their flimsy basis, while scepticism abounds towards the more reliable gospel accounts of Jesus' ministry as well as - despite your incorrect denial and misguided comments about 'hearsay and imagination' - other historical bases for the life of Jesus. The gospels were written within a generation or so of the events recorded and were mostly based on eyewitness accounts* passed along in the Jewish tradition of memorising events and, above all, the words of wisdom teachers and rabbis like Jesus. The bottom line though, as ever, is the content of his teachings. Playing around with his historical existence is to glaringly miss the point and to avoid what his wisdom might have to say to our lives.

[* eg. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jesus-Eyewitne ... ts+gospels ]
"We have more knowledge than those who came before us not because of our greater intelligence and understanding, but because we are dwarves sitting on the shoulders of giants who preceded us."
- Bernard of Chartres
User avatar
GregB
 
Posts: 15680
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:23 am
Location: Barcelona, Spain

Re: Did Jesus exist?

Postby Theophilus » June 26th, 2017, 9:53 pm

GregB wrote:The gospels were written within a generation or so of the events recorded and were mostly based on eyewitness accounts* passed along in the Jewish tradition of memorising events and, above all, the words of wisdom teachers and rabbis like Jesus.

[* eg. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jesus-Eyewitne ... ts+gospels ]


Yes, I never understood this outright rejection of the Gospels and Epistles because they are "in the Bible, which is a religious text". These writings were not produced with the intention to be made into the Christian's "holy book", so it doesn't matter that this subsequently happened. The point is that each of the Gospels, and the other writings of the New Testament, are individual documents, by different authors, that collectively add up to a remarkable amount of documentary evidence for the person called Jesus. The love of Christians for Jesus, and their desire to know about Him and to follow His teachings, led to all these disparate texts being collected together for the edification of the whole Church.
It's later than you think!
User avatar
Theophilus
 
Posts: 2990
Joined: October 25th, 2007, 11:27 am
Blog: View Blog (4)

Previous

Return to About Christianity

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest