Catholicism and Islam - how similar

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Catholicism and Islam - how similar

Postby Val » March 5th, 2017, 1:03 pm

What another sad day for the auld sod, our Radio TV and Papers are full of the story of the Tuam babies, those innocent little ones that were never given a chance by a disgusting, uncaring institution that they had the misfortune to be born into.

I do not believe in sin but for a religious nation who does

Of all the sins of humanity and there are many, sex outside of marriage is seemingly the worst in the eyes of the Roman Catholic church, the children of such sexual endeavour are and were treated like scum, they had no rights, and in the case of the Tuam babies scandal, they didn’t even get the right to a Christian burial in consecrated grounds, they were just dumped in a sewer pit by a religious organisation in whose care they were entrusted the "catholic church".

Up until very recent times 1980's early 90's unmarried women who got pregnant, usually out of ignorance of the procreation process, this because it was a sin to talk about the nasty sinful sexual act, it was a sin to protect against pregnancy, and it was a sin to read about such protection.

Anyways on the advice of the local priest these unfortunate women were sent to workhouses run by the church and if their babies survived the birth they were sold (adopted) by wealthy catholics around the world, nobody checked to see if these couples were suitable as long as they could afford the price, this money kept the church in gold and lavish living for its so called princes.

My rant.
If sex is such a sin then why did the creator invent it as a method of procreation and make it so pleasurable?

When you look at any religious organisation that oppresses women like Islam and Catholicism there are major similarities, the men do not sin by raping or abusing women but if one of these unfortunate women gets pregnant then she is seen as a sinful fallen woman, even though wasn't her fault, in biblical times these women were stoned to death, today Islam still carries out this barbarous act but in semi civilised catholic Ireland the women must be locked up and their children stolen and sold off.

Islam and the catholic organisation of Rome are steeped in misogyny; they produce more perverts and paedophiles than any other organisation, religious or otherwise it also appears that the women or at least the majority of them that went into the religious life were frustrated by their beliefs, these beliefs were that the woman’s body was sinful, the sexual act was abhorrent to god, to act or think in a sexual way was sinful, they had to bind their breasts to hide their womanly shape and cover themselves from head to foot in shapeless garb, similar to muslim women.
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Re: Catholicism and Islam - how similar

Postby Pondero » March 5th, 2017, 1:09 pm

Don't expect any reply from me anytime soon Val.
I have better things to do in Lent than answer anti-Catholic diatribes.
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Re: Catholicism and Islam - how similar

Postby Lyn » March 5th, 2017, 1:52 pm

Come on Val, things like those you describe happened across the board. As far as the Church was concerned, it was prevalent in countries where the Church wielded great power and had a tight hold on society, ruling by superstition. It's not like that in Ireland now, the Church has opened up, changed and continues to change.

As far as mother and baby homes go, they used to be terrible places whoever ran them. Over here the CofE and the Salvation Army ran such homes as well as the Catholics, and others. They were all much the same. 8-) I wrote about them on another thread. Yes, agree, sexual sin was considered the worst thing, or almost, probably because of the risk of having children who would not be born into a secure environment. Practically everyone felt that way at one time, the kids were stigmatised if they were born illegitimate - and the mothers carried the can. The phrase "Left holding the baby" is very true, the babies fathers carried on their lives as normal while the mothers had to do penance.

Girls in mother and baby homes often didn't have the necessary medical attention, eg things like swollen ankles and high blood pressure were ignored. They had to work very hard during their time in the home too. If the girl's parents were kindly and reasonably well off financially there were decent places but we don't hear much about those.

The law wasn't on the side of unmarried mothers either.
---
Neither is Islam like that in many places. Muslims vary as much as anyone else. I don't know anything about Muslims in Ireland but over here there are many different communities. There was a documentary on TV recently called, "Muslims like us", which was quite enlightening (& humourous at times). Worth watching.

I do think there are great similarities between Lent and Ramadan, both are times when a community join together and get back to basics, fasting, praying and quietly giving alms, which sets them up for the rest of the year. No bad thing in my opinion.

It also strikes me as somewhat unkind to Pondero to keep highlighting negatives about the Catholic Church. He isn't a part of any cover up or scandal or abuse and I doubt anyone in his family or circle is or has ever been, it's all been a terrible shock to them.

The only thing any of us can do is try to ensure such atrocities don't happen in the future.
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Re: Catholicism and Islam - how similar

Postby Val » March 7th, 2017, 8:53 pm

Hi Lyn

I am not being unkind to any Catholic person at least not on purpose and not blaming those of the Catholic faith as I have many such believers in my own family, but
A certain Catholic believer who posts here on Thads is very quick to rebuke others especially those of lesser religions or none.

And that is the shame of it, especially here in Ireland where some Catholic priests and bishops and some zealous lay believers had until recently publically called those trying to unearth the truth about the Tuam babies, liars and workers of the devil.

Where are those voices now, are they apologising for being so wrong, are they F...!

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/babies ... -baby-home

http://www.thejournal.ie/list-names-tua ... 9-Mar2017/

Those little ones were cruelly mistreated, not given medicines or allowed love in any form; they were taken from their mothers right away to stop the naturally bonding, and all this up until modern times, in one case on our national radio a young woman told of how she was treated when she got pregnant and was sent to a mother and baby home, but she ran away when she saw how they were treated and this in 1989, the nuns found her with the aid of our police force and offered her two hundred pounds for her baby, but she said was getting married to the father so they sent the nuns packing, boys were worth more than girls for adoption, it was a nice little earner for the church, and allowed by a weak government and brainwashed religious led police force afraid to speak out.

Just like all Muslims are not terrorists or bad people so to with catholic nuns or priests or bishops.
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Re: Catholicism and Islam - how similar

Postby Pondero » March 7th, 2017, 9:55 pm

Greetings Val :grin: :grin:
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Re: Catholicism and Islam - how similar

Postby Val » March 8th, 2017, 10:52 am

Pondero wrote:Greetings Val :grin: :grin:



Greetings Leslie

I hope you enjoyed your holiday in Florida
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Re: Catholicism and Islam - how similar

Postby Pondero » March 8th, 2017, 2:49 pm

Most of it Val, the weather was warm ,up in the mid 80 s by noon most days and there was almost no rain. The painters were painting the outside of the bungalow, on and off for a week. This meant we had to stay in while they were there.
I have no complaints,. The chief painter, would not talk much.My guess is that he comes from South America,,and is feeling rather nervous under the Trump regime.He is an excellent painter.

The only things the two, Catholicism and Islam have in common is that they are both religions.
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Re: Catholicism and Islam - how similar

Postby Val » March 10th, 2017, 2:49 pm

More on our troubled church

On our radio just now a man born in the 50's is telling his story.
His mother got pregnant at 16 and the local priest came to her father and demanded that she be put in a mother and baby home to hide the shame and the good of her unborn child.

He spent the next three years with her as she worked as a skivvy for the convent, then one day when he was about 4 years old a priest came and dragged him away from her and placed him in an orphanage miles away, he was immediately put in isolation in total darkness for 3 day as a method of separation and breaking his bond with his mother, he cried continually and so badly that he wet the bed and was beaten for this.
This cycle continued for the next few years, working in the house and in the yard with limited chance at any education, he spent the rest of his childhood in different homes, later he was hired out to brutal farmers getting into trouble and getting beaten for it.

In his first year in the orphanage his mother was allowed to visit him only once, he traced her years later and brought her home to live with him, and she told him her story.
After they took him she was sent to Dublin to work in a laundry for 16 hours a day; this she was told was to pay for the upkeep and education of her son, after 10 years they shipped her off to the UK to work in a priests retirement home and here she had to stay until at 70 and without any money they allowed her to go home to Ireland to her son.

She lived another 7 years with her son she hadn't seen in over 50 years
They were lied to, cheated on and abused by the church.

Every day more and more people are coming out and telling their stories of the abuse and humiliation they suffered at the hands of the clergy.
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Re: Catholicism and Islam - how similar

Postby Lyn » March 10th, 2017, 3:49 pm

That sort of thing happened in most countries with or without clergy. Over here, girls were often put in mental hospitals and they stayed there!

Children were put in homes and sometimes transported to another country.

Childrens' charities were heavily involved in all that.

Any child fortunate enough to be placed in a decent home had to be grateful for what every child should have.

It was a time when unmarried mothers and illegitimate children were heavily stigmatised.

Some of the stories, like the one you spoke about above, are heartbreaking. However, the Catholic Church was no worse than any other organisation, it was the zeitgeist. I can remember it, the attitudes. If the girl had decent parents prepared to support them, they were lucky.

What does this have to do with similarities between Catholicism and Islam?
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Re: Catholicism and Islam - how similar

Postby Val » March 10th, 2017, 6:52 pm

Lyn wrote:That sort of thing happened in most countries with or without clergy. Over here, girls were often put in mental hospitals and they stayed there!

Children were put in homes and sometimes transported to another country.

Childrens' charities were heavily involved in all that.

Any child fortunate enough to be placed in a decent home had to be grateful for what every child should have.

It was a time when unmarried mothers and illegitimate children were heavily stigmatised.

Some of the stories, like the one you spoke about above, are heartbreaking. However, the Catholic Church was no worse than any other organisation, it was the zeitgeist. I can remember it, the attitudes. If the girl had decent parents prepared to support them, they were lucky.

What does this have to do with similarities between Catholicism and Islam?


I might be wrong but I get the feeling that you think that UK agencies behaved in a similar fashion and this because of the time they lived in.

But you must remember that the Ireland of the early 20th century was in total chaos, we had just got rid of the auld sinful protestant enemy, the Catholic Church was the bosom of Ireland; here is where you went for comfort, petty squabbles were sorted out by local clergy, similar with cases of sexual abuse and thievery, Garda (our civil police) would always check with the priest or bishop before pressing charges against any god-fearing-catholic, in our courts a nod to the judge from the clergy would sort out a defendants punishment.


No job could be applied for without a sealed letter from your priest, no land or livestock could be sold, no house was built nor thatched, no road opened, no sod of turf turned without the ok from the clergy, they controlled every aspect of country life, women were stopped by the clergy and told to cover up if their dress was showing too much ankle or elbow and always women had to cover their heads in the presence of the priest or in church.
Women were unclean in the eyes of the church after giving birth, this period of uncleanliness was longer for a girl child than a boy, this came from the sin of having sex and becoming pregnant, after birth a woman had to stay in the house up to six weeks and couldn't go to mass or the church, then dressed appropriately she humbly went to her priest to be churched.


The Catholic Church and the local clergy were involved in everything and trusted without question, and because back then everyone went to confession so they knew everyone's story, so when they fell, they really fell.....the drop away from Catholicism is phenomenal.
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