Only in Canada

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The place to debate matters of faith and religion in a more rigorous manner. Differing perspectives from both Christians and non-Christians are actively welcomed, but contributors should come prepared to justify their opinions and beliefs, while showing due respect to the views of others.

Only in Canada

Postby Pondero » November 15th, 2011, 6:11 pm

I find this hard to believe coming from anyone in authority, that rights come from the Supreme Court and not God.
It happens to be a case in the BC Supreme Court which seeks to overturn the law against assisted suicide. I should add to clarify that the preamble to our Constitution says That Canada is founded upon principles which recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law.
However, in practice it is far from being the belief of our legal profession.
I also think that to be specific that Parliament is supreme over the wishes of an unelected nine members of a Supreme Court. Our written Constitution gives me nothing more than a headache!

However, BCCLA lawyer Joe Arvay, representing the family of Kay Carter and co-litigant Gloria Taylor, argues that the courts rather than Parliament have the “last word” in the creation of laws.[/[color=#FF4040]color]“Parliament obviously has an important role to play in the political process, but when it comes to determining what our fundamental rights and freedoms are, the court has the last word because the constitution is the supreme law of the land and not Parliament,” Arvay told the media in August. “Obviously [Mr. Nicholson] knows Parliament does not have the last word.”On August 15, 2011, Gloria Taylor was added as an additional plaintiff in the case, when the BCCLA filed an affidavit saying Taylor was told in January of 2010 that she was likely to die within one year and that she “wants the legal right to die peacefully, at the time of her own choosing, in the embrace of her family and friends.”
The Euthanasia Prevention Coalition of Canada (EPC) and the Euthanasia Prevention Coalition, BC (EPC - BC) which have intervener standing in the case, are opposing the effort to overturn Canada’s laws. They argue that legalization of euthanasia is a recipe for elder abuse and a threat to individual patient rights


And while I am at it, we need to remember that the parent is the primary educator of children and that there is a war on the family. We are told that both parents should work and that children should be raised communally, and that to question the wisdom of that is foolish. The above comes about when you realize that in Ontario Public Schools today, the schools will not allow a parent to remove a child from a lesson which the parent deems morally offensive. The parents are told it is the law. And so it is; it is the law. Welcome back Soviet Russia :eek:

These are only two things that are wrong morally with Canada at the moment. Given time I can think of others. Meanwhile we have to stand up and fight for our God given rights as parents and for dignity in life.

Aren't you lucky in the UK that Parliament is supreme and not your (Supreme Court) High Court. You probably don't have or need (a High Court ruling) on human rights because you don't have a written constitution.
According to one study, the average adult has a shorter attention span (eight seconds) than a goldfish (nine seconds).
This is not surprising in today's wired , or wified world.
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Re: Only in Canada

Postby Sprocket » November 15th, 2011, 10:32 pm

As far as I'm aware, the Bible says little if anything about rights, which are a human invention. We have whatever rights we choose to give ourselves and each others.
Also, it is not true, though it's often said, that Britain does not have a written constitution. We don't have one, single document, but we have various historical documents which are considered constitutional, and together make up our written constitution. The earliest of them is Magna Carta, but there are various others.
Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason.
Sir John Harington (1561-1620)
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Re: Only in Canada

Postby Pondero » November 16th, 2011, 2:48 am

In practice Sprocket human rights are what we as a people choose to give ourselves, but the danger there is obvious, unless we have some fixed religious standard to guide us - such as God. We could quickly end up in some horrible dictatorship.
Our problem on Canada is our Constitution which cannot be amended by Parliament easily. In fact to correct it you need the agreement of nine Provincial governments. An even greater problem is that the Supreme Court of Canada judges no
longer think that their job is simply to interpret the meaning of the law as made in Parliament, but to change the law themselves. That should be the work of a democratically elected government.

In England you do have a written Magna Charta which is the closest thing you have to a written Constitution - and that is not very complicated . You can make laws which your High Court will not overturn. Your courts respect the law they do not re-write them. Lucky you.

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According to one study, the average adult has a shorter attention span (eight seconds) than a goldfish (nine seconds).
This is not surprising in today's wired , or wified world.
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Re: Only in Canada

Postby Sprocket » November 16th, 2011, 9:18 am

Magna Carta and other documents. There are a number of constitutional documents, Another is the Bill of Rights, which dates from the 17th Century. Together, they are Britain's written constitution, not merely "the closest thing [we] have" to one.
Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason.
Sir John Harington (1561-1620)
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Re: Only in Canada

Postby Liz » November 16th, 2011, 11:45 am

Our courts may not directly rewrite the law, but they certainly do change the interpretation (or widen, or narrow) which then goes on to have an impact of other court cases as there has then been a precedent.

I'm not a lawyer, but I do wish I had a better understanding of law courts and how to read legal documents properly etc. I don't care that I don't know every law of the land, but I would prefer to know what to do if I did have to go to court for something.
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Re: Only in Canada

Postby Pondero » November 16th, 2011, 2:37 pm

Liz wrote:Our courts may not directly rewrite the law, but they certainly do change the interpretation (or widen, or narrow) which then goes on to have an impact of other court cases as there has then been a precedent.

I'm not a lawyer, but I do wish I had a better understanding of law courts and how to read legal documents properly etc. I don't care that I don't know every law of the land, but I would prefer to know what to do if I did have to go to court for something.

My own knowledge of the law is limited,restricted to provisions of the Excise Tax Act ( re airlines) and a little about the Income Tax Act.
A long long time ago I was served by a process server in the office falsely accused by a small businessman of giving him false information which resulted in him being assessed later on for excise tax. He sued me, I had two Justice department lawyers involved in that fiasco, before charges were stayed . It never went to court as he was bankrupt and settled a portion of his tax debt. What was amusing about this case was he said he knew me and my name. He passed me in the corridor on the way to the Tax Collector's office and didn't recognize me. He also badly misspelled my name in correspondence.He is also reported to have said to Mr.H (Collections department) If I had known I could settle with you guys I wouldn't have spent money on lawyers (presumably to sue me).
According to one study, the average adult has a shorter attention span (eight seconds) than a goldfish (nine seconds).
This is not surprising in today's wired , or wified world.
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Re: Only in Canada

Postby Pondero » November 16th, 2011, 4:56 pm

"The candid citizen must confess that if the policy of the government upon vital questions affecting the whole people is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court, the instant they are made in ordinary litigation...,[then] the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned their Government into the hands of that eminent tibunal." (Abraham Lincoln,First Inaugural address, March 4, 1861)
According to one study, the average adult has a shorter attention span (eight seconds) than a goldfish (nine seconds).
This is not surprising in today's wired , or wified world.
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Re: Only in Canada

Postby Pondero » November 16th, 2011, 5:27 pm

I know you are not here to score debating points Liz as some are ( and I admit, that I am guilty of that myself). But, I want to point out to you that the phrase "rewriting the law " by our Supreme Court bothers me , when I think about it. The book I have now on my knee is Judicial Activism, A Threat to Democracy and Religion. A series of Essays written by Canadian lawyers and others who criticize the Supreme Court for misinterpreting parts of the Constitution and giving it another meaning, one certainly not intended by Parliament. It does I am sure in some cases means crossing out some parts of a law, but, thinking about it. .. It may not mean going back to the legislation Section and paragraph and adding something to it. What the Supreme Court says is contained in their own written judgements after a challenge has been made to the
Charter.
I wanted to clear that up as that is what I mean by rewriting the law.

(via iPod)
According to one study, the average adult has a shorter attention span (eight seconds) than a goldfish (nine seconds).
This is not surprising in today's wired , or wified world.
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Re: Only in Canada

Postby Liz » November 16th, 2011, 8:36 pm

I'm not good enough at debating in general to score points, Pondy, and am even worse when it concerns the law. :D
I've come to know a bit more about the law/legal proceses because of some other forums I'm on, but that's in very specialised areas, and it seems to me (albeit anecdotally as I've never been taken to court) that whether you get arrested/prosecuted/convicted etc seems to be down to a few opinions on what the law does/doesn't say, rather than what the law actually does say (itms).

Anyway, that's not the point of this discussion, so I'll go back to reading it, for a while. :)
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Re: Only in Canada

Postby Pondero » November 16th, 2011, 10:58 pm

In the tax court assessments are judged on the facts, it is all very technical and pedestrian; but at the Federal Court ( should the judgement be appealed) they are more inclined to take into account mitigating factors. After that it is the Supreme Court of Canada - and only God knows how they will rule.
Of course it may not be worth it to go higher even if you thought you were unjustly treated in a lower court. It does cost a lot of money. Besides our Supreme Court of Canada can refuse to hear a case no matter how much money you have to spend on lawyers.
I last was in court fighting a traffic ticket for my wife for illegal parking. I didn't really have a case but I upset the Prosecution by insisting - as I believed was my right- to a trial. The magistrate said something to the effect that he didn't mind as long as it was an educational project for me and those in he courtroom! But in reality I was probably delaying his dinner over a glass of wine and stuffed duck or something. The magistrate showed his resentment to me after I "cross examined" the man who put a ticket on the car parked by my wife when he announced they he could fine me anything from $30 up to a $1,000 ! That really put a damper on my enthusiasm for a full trial under the British system as I stood close to the crown and the British coat of arms in gold paint on the rear wall above the magistrate's head.
I. The end I was fined a nominal amount and paid by Visa. I think I upset His Worship! :)
According to one study, the average adult has a shorter attention span (eight seconds) than a goldfish (nine seconds).
This is not surprising in today's wired , or wified world.
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Pondero
 
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